I kind of like the Awesome Bar. It makes having to remember or bookmark pages not as critical.
greggo
· 9 months ago
I love the awesome bar. It's a huge leap in browser interfaces. That's the last feature that got me really excited again as a FF user.
eas
· 9 months ago
I like the awesome bar too, but I'd trade it for more stability and better performance. Firefox lets users open more tabs than it can reasonably handle. I'd rather see them get important existing features right before chasing "awesomeness"
marcovhv
· 9 months ago
To me the answer to the question 'Firefox or Chrome?' reads:
Safari
It's getting better every release and has gradually become my browser of choice.
John Hardy
· 9 months ago
Chrome deep down is Safari (webkit), but it's a Safari without all the "chrome" and other cruft that makes it needlessly slow and nearly as clunky as Firefox.
I can understand why people don't "get" the reason for Chrome, it doesnt seem to offer much more than other browsers and in fact offers much less in some areas. But after using it for several months I find there's very little that I miss from the other browsers.
(I should point out that I test my own web pages with all five major browsers on a daily basis so I haven't really stopped using anything)
garylerude
· 9 months ago
One thing I like about Chrome, although I wouldn't have predicted that this would be a differentiator: I can type either a url or text for searching in just one place on the browser, and it figures out what to do. Very, very convenient.
I agree that functionally, it's not at the level of Firefox, so I have to use Firefox for a number of the things I do (Evernote, wiki updates). And my home computers are Macs, so I primarily use Firefox at home.
Ricardo
· 9 months ago
It is so strange that you mention that, because that is exactly how I have used Firefox since forever. Although I do have both the address bar and the search box in the interface, I usually just type items I want to search in the address bar and hit enter. In Firefox. Since as long as i can remember. Strange of you (and poster Adam Ostrow above) to see that capability as a Chrome thing.
Thor
· 9 months ago
++ Me too on the FF awesome textbox or whatever that is exactly how I search google, etc...and the hot key is in motor memory.
garylerude
· 9 months ago
Huh. I just tried what you mention and -- you're absolutely right. In some cases I get a list of Google search results, in some cases a web site with what I was looking for (like the Google *I'm feeling lucky* search selection). Thanks for pointing out that Firefox feature. I likely never would have discovered it otherwise.
efliv
· 9 months ago
Hey Dave,
I'm curious which browser plug-ins you "can't live without."
I keep a pretty lean browser, myself. The one exception being an interesting toolbar from a startup I'm working with.
Mark Allen
· 9 months ago
I was a loyal Firefox user from back when it was Phoenix until this fall when I switched to Safari after Firefox 3 started acting too unstable on my Mac. After adding an ad blocker and web inspector it's become just as good as Firefox ever was, and a whole lot faster and more stable.
I think "the plot" now is developing killer rendering and Javascript engines, then getting out of the way and letting the web drive innovation. Browsers are merely infrastructure at this point. Look at Mozilla Labs and browsers like Flock - they aren't as exciting or innovative as the web is, and aren't able to adapt nearly fast enough. Web browsers are a mature platform, and the days of major browser innovation are behind us (until someone comes along and completely changes the game, of course).
eas
· 9 months ago
I couldn't agree more. This post made me realize that the Firefox add-ons I consider must-haves help work around performance & stability issues.
I like that people at Mozilla are trying to push the user experience forward, but I'd rather they focus on getting the basics right first.
malatmals
· 9 months ago
mac: safari pc general surfing: chrome (as mentioned one box for search/navigate), a right click paste and go eliminating the need for "Enter" after a paste. I find the tabs easier to use. ff: getting web dev done or banning pesky google ads - not likely to see that in chrome :)
polit2k
· 9 months ago
A German student who goes only by “Nils” followed that with successful cracks not only of Safari, but of Microsoft’s Internet Explorer and Mozilla’s Firefox as well, leaving Google’s Chrome as the only target left standing in the first round.
You know I have a bias for Firefox, but that said I think they've been shipping a lot of interesting features that web developers have been asking for. At least, the features that have been asked for in the various working groups. For example HTML 5 video/audio, offline storage, worker threads etc.
As for user facing features what sort of things are you thinking of? What do you think would make things more fun and empowering?
dave
· 9 months ago
Just read the latest from Asa. I remembered him about half-way through writing this piece. I'm going to stay away from Firefox, keep using it, but looking for new tools. It's really disturbing the way that guy goes on, so personal -- yuck. Work a bit on the evangelism first, Chris, before asking people to contribute creativity. It's impossible to be creative when you have to be so defensive.
Nickolay
· 9 months ago
Please just ignore him. I don't think many people at Mozilla appreciate the flames he posts. It's disgusting.
Edwin Khodabakchian
· 9 months ago
Chris. I think that you are right on: There has been a lot of progress under the hood re: better web development: HTML 5, much faster JS, CSS, Canvas. A lot of interesting innovation that will continue to push the limit of what can be built using open web technologies.
I think that Mozilla is doing the right thing: trying to offer the best implementation of those standards and over an open and flexible platform where people can experiment with the next wave of those standards.
The result is that IE, Safari and Chrome are now all forced to go that direction (bye bye flex, silverlight, cocoa and other proprietary framework). Web developers win and ultimately the user wins through better apps.
Adam Ostrow
· 9 months ago
My favorite thing about Chrome is that tabs run independently ... if one crashes, it doesn't take down the whole browser. I've only had one or two "fatal" issues since installing it where the whole thing needs to be shutdown.
As for the "great new feature" I do think the address bar's dual functionality as Google search is pretty nifty and efficient, though I'm sure it's more about Google's continued dominance of search marketshare than anything else.
interstar
· 9 months ago
Mozilla Labs are doing some amazingly innovative and forward thinking work with projects like Bespin, Ubiquity etc.
I get the impression that the Firefox codebase *has* bloated, and there is some recognition (including within Mozilla) that they need to shrink the underlying browser to a smaller core / virtual machine; and to script more of the everything else in standard Javascript.
At a recent talk in London, the Bespin guys pointed out that they wrote their own text-editor using a Canvas rather than try to rely on Firefox's own text rendering components. And there seems to be a will to make things like Bespin and Ubiquity independent of Firefox, and able to run on Chrome, Safari or even IE.
Of course, Mozilla have some history to overcome ... there are still "legacy" Firefox plugins that need to be supported but there definitely seem to be people there who are thinking hard about the future beyond the monolithic browsers we have today.
chanux
· 9 months ago
I agree with you. My primary OS is Ubuntu GNU/Linux. I felt like Firefox doesn't treat the OS of it's breed very well. Kinda pissed off with Firefox but still Chrome is not a match. I use some other builds of Firefox since it seems to be lot of work to compile my own.
eas
· 9 months ago
My must-have Firefox extensions are Ad Block, and Session Manager. Ad Block so that I can block excessive Flash ads that bog my browser down, and Session Manager so I can be sure to restore all my windows and tabs if the browser crashes, or I have to restart it because it's gotten bogged down. In ordinary use Firefox with a a dozen or so tabs open is using ~50% of one of my CPU cores and over half a gig of memory.
If all Chrome manages to do when it comes to the Mac is keep one page from bogging down other's and improve overall responsiveness, then I'll be really happy. That it and Safari have already turned the browser market into a four horse race again is gravy. It clears the way for web developers to do something fun and empowering.
kosso
· 9 months ago
Agreed. Not bothering with Chrome until it's 'properly' released and works on a Mac too.
btw: What do you think of the latest version of Safari?
Manoj
· 9 months ago
A few Firefox features that make me come back to it every time I experiment with another browser are: - Session Restore; granted, if the browser doesn't crash, why would the session need to restored, except if the OS crashed. - The Awesomebar - Search within a page (and "clicking" found links without using the mouse) - Extensions. (I might be biased because I work on Elasticfox)
I mostly use a Mac and I must admit, I am tempted to switch to Safari 4.
Thor
· 9 months ago
This is so spot on. We software plumbers and especially marketing types, IMO, need to breath and hold in this opinion/advice. Please inhale.
Two other features I like about Chrome is the dockabilty of the tabs and the ability to turn a web page in something a bit like a desktop app.
Firefox used to be my favourite browser, now the 10 seconds load time and general sluggishness annoys the hell out of me every time I boot it up.
Stanley_Krute
· 9 months ago
I like Chrome's speed and steadiness and Acid3 score.
But I only use it to get an extra LogMeIn session going and to run Google docs saved as application shortcuts.
Reason: I need my Firefox add-ons to create a pleasing tool. Current set includes: Adblock Plus, Colorful Tabs, EditCSS, Firebug, GMarks, Googlebar, IE Tab, New Tab Button on Tab Right, Speed Dial, Split Browser, UnMHT, and Web Developer. Each provides functionality I would not want to surf without.
Compared to my add-ons-equipped Firefox, Safari and Chrome feel like tricycles next to a space shuttle.
-- stan
Steve Moyer
· 9 months ago
I have a dream ...
and while the speech before pales in irrelevance compared to that of Martin Luther King Jr, it is what I'm hoping for.
I dream that you won't notice any browser in the future, because they all render the content the same way.
I dream that Moore's law makes the rendering speed and JavaScript execution speed irrelevant, because our eye's can't perceive a noticeable difference.
I dream that the EU wouldn't care whether Microsoft bundles IE with Windows or not because I'm tired of hearing about it and who cares what browser they're using.
I dream that web applications can be developed to a standard and that people just ignore browsers that don't render properly.
I dream that no one cares about sandboxes, because the underlying security is strong.
I dream that no one cares about sandboxes, because the average user is smart enough to avoid danger.
So yes ... I think the ambiguity of the web browser is a good thing, but agree that, for now, I can't live without my Firefox plugins (primarily for web development).
Chris_Janton
· 9 months ago
OmniWeb for the Mac - it's now available for no $ - different from no cost. It costs some time to learn it's neat tricks.
One of my favorites - Shortcut preferences allow things like "g some search criteria" to do a google search - or "imdb Jon Favreau" to look for the artist in the imdb
I wonder which Firefox add-ons you can't live without.
8)
jfno
· 9 months ago
I use Ubiquity as a plugin in FF to do just what you describe as Shortcut preferences. So that is one I want to keep.
Ooble
· 9 months ago
You can use Firefox bookmark keywords to do the same thing.
jfno
· 9 months ago
Chrome pushes Firefox in the back and this is good. I think because of initiative like Chrome, FF will get faster and pick up some other great features of Chrome.
You speak of stability and there is a feature FF has to take from Chrome and it is Tab isolation. So each tab can be killed individually when they don't behave, while you have to kill FF when only one tab is freezing up.
With Safari and Firefox we have a nice start to face IE and Chrome is a nice addition. I'm not preaching for the disappearance of IE, I just think good competition will force MS to make a better browser and keep working on it. We saw what MS did when they were the only game in town.
achernow
· 9 months ago
I was just mentioning to a friend last night that the one big thing that I wish that Chrome had was Foxmarks. I run Chrome on my netbook because Firefox has become so bloated and memory hoggy that it's slow and takes forever to load. Chrome pops up and is ready to go super fast.
Of course, that's my only Windows machine. I'm otherwise a Mac user, with an iMac 24" and a Powerbook Titanium. (Or Linux in the case of my DVR.)
amorson
· 9 months ago
Dave, whats your must-have plugins?
Mark Lowne
· 9 months ago
>>> We're so concerned with malware and who's killing who, we forgot to move forward in interesting and fun ways. Or am I missing something.
My take on how to move forward - it's on the longish side, skip towards the end ;)
"... How long has it been since any browser shipped a feature that made a difference to users? Not just safety, which is important as I said, but something fun and empowering?? ..."
I think both Chrome and Firefox are quiet good when comparing to Internet Explorer. The biggest problem is that most of people never try Chrome neither Firefox because IE is shipped as a standard. It is terrible that we have Microsoft that does not let easily to choose other browsers for 'normal' users. I wish one day we will use different OS where most of people will use Chrome or Firefox rather then IE.
Gary
· 9 months ago
"... How long has it been since any browser shipped a feature that made a difference to users? Not just safety, which is important as I said, but something fun and empowering?? ..."
i'm a regular firefox user, and i just tried chrome. i have a 2gig, 2.5ghz sytem, chrome is very quick to launch and load pages vs. firefox, though firefox isn't a snail itself. but i just can't live without firefox's adblock, flash-block and noscript.
i just visited my typical site, www.forbes.com . using chrome, i realized that firefox has spoiled me, i never realized how these sites are a nightmare to the senses with all of the annoying adds.
i just uninstalled chrome. but, i would be happy to switch once adblock, flash block and etc. add-ons are available for chrome.
Zikk
· 6 months ago
Firefox is quite more popular for regular internet surfer/blogger. Also best for porn searcher (LOL) because its security is like IE but faster. But after Google launches chrome, Firefox's popularity collides. We all know that Google is the most popular web search engine and the fastest as well. Although it lacks of security for minor ages and internet newbies. But because of its incredible speed, people tend to shift over to it. So when we compare the two internet browsers, it's just a matter of speed vs. security. For speed, it definitely is Chrome. Although Firefox is 3rd in speedy browsers, there is still a noticeable gap. For security, go for Firefox. Its security is comparable to IE, which is known for stylish and secured connections. It also has a block list which gives warning to suspected hack sites.
I use Firefox for browsing, but I think I like chrome for downloading.
jshgb
· 6 months ago
I've found myself using firefox as my primary browser because Chrome lacks some preference configurability: erase all temps on exit,...
However Chrome has some advantages over firefox: opens faster, divides into multiple process to take better throughput from multiple cores. But for me, security is more important at the moment
binterest.com
· 1 week ago
Its available for Mac & Extensions instead of Add-ons...
All Comments
I kind of like the Awesome Bar. It makes having to remember or bookmark pages not as critical.
Safari
It's getting better every release and has gradually become my browser of choice.
I can understand why people don't "get" the reason for Chrome, it doesnt seem to offer much more than other browsers and in fact offers much less in some areas. But after using it for several months I find there's very little that I miss from the other browsers.
(I should point out that I test my own web pages with all five major browsers on a daily basis so I haven't really stopped using anything)
I agree that functionally, it's not at the level of Firefox, so I have to use Firefox for a number of the things I do (Evernote, wiki updates). And my home computers are Macs, so I primarily use Firefox at home.
cases I get a list of Google search results, in some cases a web site with
what I was looking for (like the Google *I'm feeling lucky* search
selection).
Thanks for pointing out that Firefox feature. I likely never would have
discovered it otherwise.
I'm curious which browser plug-ins you "can't live without."
I keep a pretty lean browser, myself. The one exception being an interesting toolbar from a startup I'm working with.
I think "the plot" now is developing killer rendering and Javascript engines, then getting out of the way and letting the web drive innovation. Browsers are merely infrastructure at this point. Look at Mozilla Labs and browsers like Flock - they aren't as exciting or innovative as the web is, and aren't able to adapt nearly fast enough. Web browsers are a mature platform, and the days of major browser innovation are behind us (until someone comes along and completely changes the game, of course).
I like that people at Mozilla are trying to push the user experience forward, but I'd rather they focus on getting the basics right first.
pc general surfing: chrome (as mentioned one box for search/navigate), a right click paste and go eliminating the need for "Enter" after a paste. I find the tabs easier to use.
ff: getting web dev done or banning pesky google ads - not likely to see that in chrome :)
http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2009/03/bla...
As for user facing features what sort of things are you thinking of? What do you think would make things more fun and empowering?
I think that Mozilla is doing the right thing: trying to offer the best implementation of those standards and over an open and flexible platform where people can experiment with the next wave of those standards.
The result is that IE, Safari and Chrome are now all forced to go that direction (bye bye flex, silverlight, cocoa and other proprietary framework). Web developers win and ultimately the user wins through better apps.
As for the "great new feature" I do think the address bar's dual functionality as Google search is pretty nifty and efficient, though I'm sure it's more about Google's continued dominance of search marketshare than anything else.
I get the impression that the Firefox codebase *has* bloated, and there is some recognition (including within Mozilla) that they need to shrink the underlying browser to a smaller core / virtual machine; and to script more of the everything else in standard Javascript.
At a recent talk in London, the Bespin guys pointed out that they wrote their own text-editor using a Canvas rather than try to rely on Firefox's own text rendering components. And there seems to be a will to make things like Bespin and Ubiquity independent of Firefox, and able to run on Chrome, Safari or even IE.
Of course, Mozilla have some history to overcome ... there are still "legacy" Firefox plugins that need to be supported but there definitely seem to be people there who are thinking hard about the future beyond the monolithic browsers we have today.
If all Chrome manages to do when it comes to the Mac is keep one page from bogging down other's and improve overall responsiveness, then I'll be really happy. That it and Safari have already turned the browser market into a four horse race again is gravy. It clears the way for web developers to do something fun and empowering.
btw: What do you think of the latest version of Safari?
- Session Restore; granted, if the browser doesn't crash, why would the session need to restored, except if the OS crashed.
- The Awesomebar
- Search within a page (and "clicking" found links without using the mouse)
- Extensions. (I might be biased because I work on Elasticfox)
I mostly use a Mac and I must admit, I am tempted to switch to Safari 4.
http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2009/03/ch...
Firefox is slow, crashy and leaky.
Two other features I like about Chrome is the dockabilty of the tabs and the ability to turn a web page in something a bit like a desktop app.
Firefox used to be my favourite browser, now the 10 seconds load time and general sluggishness annoys the hell out of me every time I boot it up.
But I only use it to get an extra LogMeIn session going and to run Google docs saved as application shortcuts.
Reason: I need my Firefox add-ons to create a pleasing tool. Current set includes: Adblock Plus, Colorful Tabs, EditCSS, Firebug, GMarks, Googlebar, IE Tab, New Tab Button on Tab Right, Speed Dial, Split Browser, UnMHT, and Web Developer. Each provides functionality I would not want to surf without.
Compared to my add-ons-equipped Firefox, Safari and Chrome feel like tricycles next to a space shuttle.
-- stan
and while the speech before pales in irrelevance compared to that of Martin Luther King Jr, it is what I'm hoping for.
I dream that you won't notice any browser in the future, because they all render the content the same way.
I dream that Moore's law makes the rendering speed and JavaScript execution speed irrelevant, because our eye's can't perceive a noticeable difference.
I dream that the EU wouldn't care whether Microsoft bundles IE with Windows or not because I'm tired of hearing about it and who cares what browser they're using.
I dream that web applications can be developed to a standard and that people just ignore browsers that don't render properly.
I dream that no one cares about sandboxes, because the underlying security is strong.
I dream that no one cares about sandboxes, because the average user is smart enough to avoid danger.
So yes ... I think the ambiguity of the web browser is a good thing, but agree that, for now, I can't live without my Firefox plugins (primarily for web development).
One of my favorites - Shortcut preferences allow things like "g some search criteria"
to do a google search - or "imdb Jon Favreau" to look for the artist in the imdb
I wonder which Firefox add-ons you can't live without.
8)
You speak of stability and there is a feature FF has to take from Chrome and it is Tab isolation. So each tab can be killed individually when they don't behave, while you have to kill FF when only one tab is freezing up.
With Safari and Firefox we have a nice start to face IE and Chrome is a nice addition. I'm not preaching for the disappearance of IE, I just think good competition will force MS to make a better browser and keep working on it. We saw what MS did when they were the only game in town.
Of course, that's my only Windows machine. I'm otherwise a Mac user, with an iMac 24" and a Powerbook Titanium. (Or Linux in the case of my DVR.)
My take on how to move forward - it's on the longish side, skip towards the end ;)
http://blog.marklowne.com/post/87006028/the-dim...
I remember http://flock.com/about had a good run for a while. Must have a look at it again. Open in various flavours ~ http://flock.com/versions
Stylish
NoScript
Is google Chrome innovation or emulation?
http://www.techunits.com/content/2026/is_google...
i just visited my typical site, www.forbes.com . using chrome, i realized that firefox has spoiled me, i never realized how these sites are a nightmare to the senses with all of the annoying adds.
i just uninstalled chrome. but, i would be happy to switch once adblock, flash block and etc. add-ons are available for chrome.
Also best for porn searcher (LOL) because its security is like IE but faster.
But after Google launches chrome, Firefox's popularity collides.
We all know that Google is the most popular web search engine and the fastest as well.
Although it lacks of security for minor ages and internet newbies.
But because of its incredible speed, people tend to shift over to it.
So when we compare the two internet browsers, it's just a matter of speed vs. security.
For speed, it definitely is Chrome. Although Firefox is 3rd in speedy browsers, there is still a noticeable gap.
For security, go for Firefox. Its security is comparable to IE, which is known for stylish and secured connections.
It also has a block list which gives warning to suspected hack sites.
I use Firefox for browsing, but I think I like chrome for downloading.
However Chrome has some advantages over firefox: opens faster, divides into multiple process to take better throughput from multiple cores. But for me, security is more important at the moment