Scripting News - Latest Comments in Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Jake — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:19:10 -0000

So the real question is not did VoloMedia invent podcasting - it's did VoloMedia patent podcasting.

Ignore the press releases - the answer appears to be no.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

peterkayontwitter — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 22:32:58 -0000

I've filed several patents and the key are the claims. Their claims are not too complex or hard to read. Everybody: please read claim #1. Ask yourself if there's any way you can deliver a podcast without precisely following each step. If you can, then you're not violating their patent.

One step that podcasters do not require is RECEIVING A SUBSCRIPTION REQUEST. Because a podcatcher simply reads a published RSS file and then downloads content, there is no "subscription request". So their claims don't cover the podcast process.

Second, the entire last part of Claim one talks about the channel data provided to the client, none of which is provided by traditional podcasts.

So yes, they have a claim on a very specific way of delivering episodic media. But do they have enough to own podcasts? Only for the fools that will bend over. This patent is hardly worth the paper its written on.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Chad — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:35:18 -0000

I think you are basically correct about this patent. It probably should not have issued. I just blogged about it over at Seattle Patents: http://seattlepatents.com/2...

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Erik S. — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:32:47 -0000

Yeah, and don't forget pointcast.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Steve Garfield — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:10:02 -0000

VoloMedia Patents Podcasting. What's Next?

http://offonatangent.blogsp...

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Chuck Shotton — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:02:35 -0000

Having filed several, I can tell you that the funniest thing is that you rarely file for what actually turns out to be most valuable. Of 4 patents I'm an inventor on, only one actually patented the right stuff at the right time. The peril of engineering is that by focusing on details at the time, it's nearly a random chance that you happen to have focused on what will be valuable to the market 5 or 6 years down the road when the patent squirts out the end of the process. VoloMedia thinks they got lucky here.

Truth is that not only did Dave and Adam's work predate their initial filing by over a year, there were plenty of other companies using stuff besides RSS to deliver "episodic content" to users. My company, BIAP Systems, delivered a product called GoTrieve in 2000 that used intelligent agents to aggregate content from Internet sources, including images, video, and text, into a daily "newspaper" and then push the results out to subscribers. The only difference here is that the content is machine created rather than human created. The distribution is the same. There were dozens of print publications at the time that had "CD-ROM" components to their magazines that were available on a monthly basis for downloads by special desktop clients. There were lots of people serializing training material, books on tape, and daily video news casts that were made available to subscribers via custom clients as well.

I suspect these pin heads hope to score a fast buck from some media companies who don't want to be bothered. Unless they have a hidden backer, they don't seem to be in possession of enough capital for even a simple defense of this silly patent. Unfortunately, it is going to take someone with patience and deep pockets to get it invalidated. I've been working with 2 law firms in Chicago for the past 4 years to help them get a patent on dynamic HTTP content generation invalidated and they still haven't succeeded, even though an ounce of common sense shows the patent is a joke. This is just another sad example of how flawed the patent process is.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Thejesh GN — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:58:24 -0000

That is a great idea. May be we should have a db on freebase or in wiki format.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

TJ Kanan — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:22:17 -0000

I just came home and saw this. I am not a patent lawyer. Did a quick check for other podcasting patents on Google Patent Search, and found this - Application number: 11/166,331, Publication number: US 2006/0265503 A1 Filing date: Jun 25, 2005 titled "Techniques and systems for supporting podcasting" . Is there still room for continued invention of podcasting in 2005? Guess who filed this patent?

The first claim reads:
A method for subscribing to a podcast, said method comprising:
- receiving a portable subscription file that is used to facilitate subscribing to the podcast;
- accessing the portable subscription file to obtain podcast information; and
- subscribing to the podcast using the podcast information.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

gnwpu6a — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:52:40 -0000

Dave, "Morning Coffee Notes" was the inspiration for me to start podcasting, which I've been doing with my co-host on another continent twice a week since January 2005. We both credit you and Adam frequently as the developers who introduced the technology that makes podcasting possible, and I don't see that Volo's claim that its patent isn't RSS-dependent changes that. This patent strikes me as absurd in the same vein as the patent awarded Amazon for its one-click purchase option. The U.S. Patent Office has been awarding these nonsensical patents for too long. Reform is needed. In the meantime, I'll be telling everyone who will listen that Volo is a pretender and that Winer and Curry are the true innovators of podcasting, RSS or no. The ultimate test is simple: Where would podcasting be today without your work?

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Drew Kime — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:14:13 -0000

mterenzio FTW!

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Tom Morris — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:38:58 -0000

It'd be a start if the various patent regulators around the world figured out how to use Google.

Or if they had a system of public comments - and there would be a set of public feeds based on categories with patent applications, and the public would be invited to collect evidence of prior art. That way, software guys could subscribe to a feed of software patents and submit comments as to prior art and obviousness.

Or even simpler just have a way so that any ordinary citizen can file prior art, safe in the knowledge that they would investigate it thoroughly and determine (a) whether it invalidates the patent and (b) if it does, if the patent owner ought to have known about it. And if they should have known about it, they'd have to pay full costs. If the USPTO can determine whether to give a patent claim in the first place, they should be able to revoke it and charge fees for time-wasters.

The barrier is the courtroom. And the likelihood of decent law reform on IP issues is about as likely as when the president after Obama settles down to work on the first day of the job and says to himself: "Great. Don't have to worry about healthcare. Everyone's got universal coverage!"

Another idea: some bright folks like Larry Lessig, the EFF and others could set up a foundation that could pre-emptively file for patents on things like RSS and so on, on behalf of users and developers, and then figure out a way of 'patent-lefting'-ing them. Just as open source uses copyright law, the same could be done with patent law. Of course, they could fund such a group by charging a modest fee to patent trolls to use the otherwise free patents.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

kosso — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:40:23 -0000

"Previously on Scripting News...."

Arguably, even these comments are "Episodic Media" (just in text) which are being downloaded to my computer over the internet when I visited this page.

I say challenge this ludicrous patent claim - to the letter.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

strick — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:28:54 -0000

Dave,

I'm sure you can find plenty of useful links, but perhaps in some way this helps.

Here is evidence of prior art from Oct 8, 2002. See "narrowcasting" near the end of this page on my dws.us blog
http://www.dws.us/weblog/ca...

Don

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Tom Webster — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:07:25 -0000

A few thoughts about this: http://www.infinitedial.com...

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

mterenzio — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:40:28 -0000

Back in 1920's I used to deliver the old silent movie serials to the theatres by horse (no one said it had to be an electronic computing device). We then stored the transaction on a piece of paper (the mobile device)

These guys owe me money.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Tom Webster — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:54:33 -0000

Nothing happens without litigation! So again--who is the plaintiff?

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Drew Kime — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:51:07 -0000

Is there any penalty for knowingly filing a patent application when there is prior art? I have read articles where programmers have claimed to avoid researching prior art so that they can honestly assert independent invention. This would support the idea that the concept was obvious to a practitioner.

In this case, the concept was already fairly well publicized. I wouldn't be surprised if someone could establish that the principals at Volo had seen your applications. Their patent is suspiciously close to a textbook description of RSS enclosures for an independent invention.

So back to the question, if it could be established that they viewed your product and filed a patent that described it, would there be any sanction other than having the patent nullified?

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

fahrni — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:44:49 -0000

Yeah, that's just crazy talk. Obviously there is prior art that should be grounds enough to revoke the patent. Question is, who will fight it? I don't think Dave is interested, but as the creator he's the obvious choice.

Dave, maybe it's time to call on the EFF?

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

DeanWhitbread — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:44:41 -0000

I can't see this patent being accepted outside of the US.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

Tom Webster — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:34:18 -0000

Not a lawyer, but I have filed a patent. Here is VoloMedia's statement: "Today, podcasting is 100% RSS-based. However, the patent is not RSS-dependent. Rather, it covers all episodic media downloads. It just so happens that, today, the majority of episodic media downloads are RSS-based podcasts, which is why we titled our announcement the way we did." The mechanism--RSS, or something else--is not the crux of the patent--it's ALL episodic media delivery (including, but not limited to, RSS).

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

fahrni — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:29:39 -0000

Oh, I know it's not free to register for a patent Dave. I'm just stating a fact; if you'd registered for a patent on your creation, you wouldn't be talking about this right now.

Funny thing is the patent system was created, as I understand it, to help protect the little guy. In this case it clearly didn't do that.

As as for setting up a fund. I don't know what the cost is to file a patent? How much have you spent on technology over the past year? Could some of that been used to cover registration of your unique ideas?

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

fahrni — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:25:10 -0000

Dave, I think it's clear you were, at the very least, a co-inventor of podcasting, and the sole inventor of the extension to RSS that allows for it.

They clearly have a problem if their patent includes podcasting via RSS.

Unfortunately this is one of those weird reasons we need lawyers. When I read their announcement I didn't read it the way Tom did, Tom are you a laywer? Don't worry, I won't hate you if you are. :-)

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

dave — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:18:45 -0000

Then they have a prior art problem if it was "invented" after December 2000.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

dave — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:18:38 -0000

You should set up a fund for the legal work to patent stuff that will be
given to the world. Not cheap to file patents. And it takes you away from
the work you love to do, the creative stuff.

Re: Did VoloMedia invent Podcasting? (Scripting News)

dave — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:15:53 -0000

So they don't claim to have invented podcasting?

If so, that's a relief. :-)