We've been discussing the above isues for months now. It would be great to have you on board :)
Alex Iskold
· 2 years ago
I completely agree and have been thinking the same for 2 years now. To me there are two ways: API or XML export. I actually think that XML export, especially if Netfix automatically writes to a third party data store of my choice is preferred.
But I am not sure this is realistic. If something like Open Social is implemented and includes data access so that I can authorize a service of my choice to access the data, I think thats good enough.
TedC
· 2 years ago
Hi Dave, this is exactly what I've been working on for years. Now is the time.
and how does it works ? is it avail for memebership ?
interstar
· 2 years ago
It's possible that Facebook *is* a political issue in the MoveOn sense if people are starting to use it to organize activism.
Maybe even though it's theoretically private space, it's becoming such an important part of their lives that it needs to be considered as a public utility. (Compare say, shopping malls as they replace public town-centres)
jmdelaney
· 2 years ago
But the issue with Facebook is not that they are not giving me my data (which does tick me off...), but that they are giving my data to somebody else, and their partners are giving my data to them. Now, this is fine assuming that I have agreed to it in advance - but I haven't. And they purposefully seem to make it difficult for me to opt out. Facebook should be less cavalier about these things, and we cannot expect them to be more careful without letting them know that we do care.
Per
· 2 years ago
Hei Dave, I really enjoy your posts about data ownership, But I think a major problem is that (we) developers are caught up in our own way to do things, and are not completely sure what it means and how to do it.
I think the person that comes up with real life examples on how to implement this would become an authority on the issue.
For example, If i was running Wordpress, what could I do to make a difference and give my users REAL control of their data?
Thanks for your time ;)
dave
· 2 years ago
Per, I'm totally willing to help that way, and I understand the question since I am a developer myself.
First, Wordpress is doing pretty well, as I understand it. The way to go there is to provide full export and import of the contents of a weblog in an XML-based format. RSS 2.0 would be my preference, of course. I think that WP actually does this. I've talked about it with Matt a number of times. We did it with Radio, we had to define a namespace for the data we keep on posts that isn't covered by RSS 2.0, but perhaps not very surprising (since RSS was designed to carry blogging info) most of the data was covered.
I've been taking exactly the approach you suggest with Netflix and Yahoo, with movie rating data. I've offered to help design an XML format for this data. There are minor differences in the way they rate movies, I think a mapping could be figured out. And if only one of them is doing it, then there's no real concern about mapping. The first mover here has a lot of power. Once one of them provides the data, then I'm going to start with potential consumers of the data.
To be clear, I want them to only give access to the data to the users, much the way RSS aggregators give users control of their OPML files (an example of not just talking but actually doing, I wanted no data lockin in RSS-land, so I allowed for export and import of subscription data in Radio, resulting in a standard, very little work was needed, because there was high value to the data).
Per
· 2 years ago
Thanks for the fast reply :)
Wow, I just got an idea, maybe it already exists (i haven't even googled it, it came to me while typing this reply)
What about creating a simple sync/backup service that you download and run on your computer, that fetches rss feeds you select and stores them locally on your hard drive?
It's not directly related to the netflix/yahoo thing, but I for one would feel much more safe knowing that I had historical automated backups of my data on my hard drive.
In the future, one could expand this utility and make it do all kinds of stuff with the data, exporting it to other services, aggregating, visualizing it etc.
Chris Saad
· 2 years ago
Dave - as mathew said about - the common XML format for ratings already exists - it is at www.apml.org.
Thanks for bringing up this issue, but IMHO its a small part of overall data rights on the 'net. Until we have a 'big picture' we'll always be fighting these small battles without a manifesto. I've tried to make a start at http://tagschema.com/blogs/tagschema/2007/07/so... Be curious to hear your comments when you can take a moment to read it. Just finished dinner with Om Malik after he met you and we were talking about this issue in greater detail as well.
Jason Bogovich
· 2 years ago
Hi Dave, I've been stuck on live.com for years. I've started my own Wordpress blog but I'm still working out the kinks on getting my data off of live spaces. Google Summer of code produced a nice little python script to pull data off but Microsoft (I thinK) embeds random unicode which blocks an easy exit.
My time on Live spaces has been pretty great, but I want a copy of my data so that I can move it myself.
What we are proposing is a static form of data ownership. A dynamic form of ownership would consist of true semantic author properties which at the press of a button could be pulled from multiple sites at once. I'd love to join a team that could start whiteboarding the architecture on something like that. Sometime in the future after everyone has a local backup on a cloud, we will want to start backing up our web data locally. Okay, I'm taking things a little too far but it would not surprise me to see this if a real "Open Social" were to be the dominating factor. Ultimately, it will take people like Dave and Doc pounding on the table to make it happen. Great post.
aDB
· 2 years ago
http://www.apml.org/ !! From their site : "APML allows users to share their own personal Attention Profile in much the same way that OPML allows the exchange of reading lists between News Readers."
This smacks of Microsoft's inability to innovate: if they deployed a client application for windows to foster maintaining your own data, then lots of these website APIs would begin to plug together with the client as the common framekwork. That sells PCs! Yet they sleep with IEv7++ and dream of stock fantasies.
Deva Hazarika
· 2 years ago
I actually went and read a ton of privacy policies and terms of use statements at sites I use. Across a number of major sites, there’s a pretty wide-ranging set of policies. Results posted here: http://www.emaildashboard.com/2007/11/how-priva...
rbazinet
· 2 years ago
I think in the current social web people are mostly unconcerned about their data, thinking it is in good hands and out of sight.
I am with you though, I want control over my data, I want to be able to get my data. I think the majority of users are more like sheep and will simply follow the flock.
All Comments
We've been discussing the above isues for months now. It would be great to have you on board :)
But I am not sure this is realistic. If something like Open Social is implemented and includes data access so that I can authorize a service of my choice to access the data, I think thats good enough.
at the least we are hoping that this will put other service in the position of having to do the same thing
the url for the service is www.adelph.us
is it avail for memebership ?
Maybe even though it's theoretically private space, it's becoming such an important part of their lives that it needs to be considered as a public utility. (Compare say, shopping malls as they replace public town-centres)
I think the person that comes up with real life examples on how to implement this would become an authority on the issue.
For example, If i was running Wordpress, what could I do to make a difference and give my users REAL control of their data?
Thanks for your time ;)
First, Wordpress is doing pretty well, as I understand it. The way to go there is to provide full export and import of the contents of a weblog in an XML-based format. RSS 2.0 would be my preference, of course. I think that WP actually does this. I've talked about it with Matt a number of times. We did it with Radio, we had to define a namespace for the data we keep on posts that isn't covered by RSS 2.0, but perhaps not very surprising (since RSS was designed to carry blogging info) most of the data was covered.
I've been taking exactly the approach you suggest with Netflix and Yahoo, with movie rating data. I've offered to help design an XML format for this data. There are minor differences in the way they rate movies, I think a mapping could be figured out. And if only one of them is doing it, then there's no real concern about mapping. The first mover here has a lot of power. Once one of them provides the data, then I'm going to start with potential consumers of the data.
To be clear, I want them to only give access to the data to the users, much the way RSS aggregators give users control of their OPML files (an example of not just talking but actually doing, I wanted no data lockin in RSS-land, so I allowed for export and import of subscription data in Radio, resulting in a standard, very little work was needed, because there was high value to the data).
Wow, I just got an idea, maybe it already exists (i haven't even googled it, it came to me while typing this reply)
What about creating a simple sync/backup service that you download and run on your computer, that fetches rss feeds you select and stores them locally on your hard drive?
It's not directly related to the netflix/yahoo thing, but I for one would feel much more safe knowing that I had historical automated backups of my data on my hard drive.
In the future, one could expand this utility and make it do all kinds of stuff with the data, exporting it to other services, aggregating, visualizing it etc.
Check out www.dataportability.org for a broader picture
Thanks for bringing up this issue, but IMHO its a small part of overall data rights on the 'net.
Until we have a 'big picture' we'll always be fighting these small battles without a manifesto.
I've tried to make a start at
http://tagschema.com/blogs/tagschema/2007/07/so...
Be curious to hear your comments when you can take a moment to read it.
Just finished dinner with Om Malik after he met you and we were talking about this issue in greater detail as well.
My time on Live spaces has been pretty great, but I want a copy of my data so that I can move it myself.
What we are proposing is a static form of data ownership. A dynamic form of ownership would consist of true semantic author properties which at the press of a button could be pulled from multiple sites at once. I'd love to join a team that could start whiteboarding the architecture on something like that. Sometime in the future after everyone has a local backup on a cloud, we will want to start backing up our web data locally. Okay, I'm taking things a little too far but it would not surprise me to see this if a real "Open Social" were to be the dominating factor. Ultimately, it will take people like Dave and Doc pounding on the table to make it happen. Great post.
"APML allows users to share their own personal Attention Profile in much the same way that OPML allows the exchange of reading lists between News Readers."
Sounds like this is right up your alley. See http://apml.pbwiki.com/services for places it is in use today.
I am with you though, I want control over my data, I want to be able to get my data. I think the majority of users are more like sheep and will simply follow the flock.