Scripting News - Latest Comments in Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

CTO_7 — Mon, 11 May 2009 01:02:13 -0000

Thats why all macs suck and apple in general sucks

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

DC — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:37:57 -0000

you can always try sjobs@apple.com - ive tried it, leave your phone number and his personal assistant will call you the next day

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

jim — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 06:35:22 -0000

I feel exactly the same way. I have exactly the same story and I'm furious. So furious I will be marching into my apple authorized service centre and demanding my computer back. I will fix it myself. Warranty or no warranty.

I have always been a hugh apple fan until now.

go the x86

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

jswilsonx — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:50:24 -0000

To put article in context look here: http://redtape.msnbc.com/20...
Reconditioned hard drive sold and information retrieved.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

drx1 — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:56:13 -0000

All very good points and I would only say Apple has always been this way. Infact many computer companies have been (or are) this way - including Dell, though I think Dell has learned more lessions that Apple (in this type of case).

Way back in ancient times... say 1994 - the best part about buying an Apple computer was the fact you never (or rarely) had to deal with Apple. You bought for an Apple authorized dealer. You took it to an Apple authorized repair shop. If one sucked, you typically could find an alternative elsewhere - assuming you lived in a fairly large town.

Often the better retailers and repair shops would work with the customer to make sure they got what they needed... but Apple has this iron clad policies. Apple memory is expensive, but it rarely fails in my experience. Their drives are not bad either... why is an 'old' 80GB drive $160? Probably because several years ago (around the time you bought your drive) that drive was $160 and probably because Apple tests it... but that doesnt mean its bullet proof - or an 'iron clad' drive that will run forever (or even a few years). However this is how Apple justifies the price of the drive. Not that I would justify that... but unfortunately for all the technological innovation Apple creates, some of its policies are stuck in the stone age.

You would have been much better off buying a drive and having a good tech swap them out.. then say running a restore from Time Machine... or Carbon Copy Cloner ... or Tri-Backup ... or something. You could have had your old busted drive (with any recoverable data that may be there) a new faster and market priced drive and all your data back.

Though the drive swap is generally easy, the data restore is not always easy, depending on what you have or what you lack.

Good thing Apple added Time Machine .. for easy backups and (hopefully) easy restores of important data, system files and applications.

One nice feature, that started in 10.3.x is secure erase ... giving you the option (via the Finder) to securely erase files by overwriting them 3 times. Though this is not 100% secure by some measures... you can do a random overwrite of your drive ... up to 35 times via disk utility. While this is secure, you can imagine it will take days to wipe a modern drive and if the drive is not performing up to spec or has failed this wont help you (or if Apple has decided your drive is now their drive)...

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Timothy Tan — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:27:02 -0000

With regards to hard disk replacement, I believe this is the case with all hard disk manufacturers, not Apple. For the HD manufacturer's warranty to be active, there has to be a 1-1 replacement. Apple doesn't have a choice here. The HD manufacturers don't care about your data either. They assume you've backed it up. The replacement you get is probably a new HD, since it costs a lot of money to refurbish HDs.

What you can probably arrange is for them to destroy the HD in front of you before returning it to them. I've seen large companies arrange for this. Even large enterprises have to return failed HDs in order to get replacements.

As for the cost of HDs, I usually buy my HDs separately and get my local Apple dealer to swap it for me. That's much cheaper. Same with RAM and any other generic hardware that Apple uses.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Bill W — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:27:33 -0000

Couldn't agree more with #4. Just bought an Airport Extreme, which failed after 7 days. Couldn't get a valid IP address from the unit (by the way Apple support technicians never refer to the unit as a router.... it is an airport or base station).

It was only after a total of 7.5 hours with three Apple support people did I get a replacement unit. At the end of the first three calls I was told it was an ISP issue. So in addition to the 7.5 hours on the phone with Apple, I was on the phone with my ISP (who gave me better service) to work on the recommendations that Apple made. Finally in addition to that my ISP came to the house and replace a cable modem to prove the point.

When I complained to the Apple technician - Peter - that as he was new I was going to have to go through the complete 2 hour proof to him that I had already done with a prior technician, he ignored the comment and began the sequence. So at the end of two hours when he told me to call the ISP to get them to perform another operation, I said this was going nowhere as I'd have to do the same thing to the next person. It was only then he gave me his phone number to call back (the only one to do so), and when I reported that after all the work with the ISP that I could get a signal without the Apple Base Station (router), and not with it..... he then said Apple would send another unit to be replaced.

So far the new unit has worked the first time.... Too bad I spent all my time on the phone to id that an Apple might have a defective product some times (like the rest of the world). My only consolation is that, as I pointed out to him, Apple had spent way more in hourly expense on technical support than the 185 purchase price of a router.

Best wishes on your Apple equipment. I like my Ipod (60G) and I trust I will like my Airport extreme base station as soon as I can find the network shared hard drive on all my computers.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Sam Deeks — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 03:45:13 -0000

Gnnrrrrr. Too true. I've got 2 Macs failing to work after just 2 years.

ME: So would a reasonable definition of 'fit-for-purpose' be the expectation that these machines would still be working after two years?
APPLE CUSTOMER SERVICE: Sir, you had the choice to buy the Extended Apple Care warranty...
ME: That doesn't sound like a 'choice' to me, that sounds like a 'pre-requisite'.

Both failing with know faults - acknowledged by a Repair Extension Programme (just happens NOT to cover my serial number).

So - verdict. Can I recommend Mac as a reliable (if way overpriced) business machine? Uh - no. Can I recommend Apple's customer service... Uh... No.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Heather Bryse-Harvey — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:17:38 -0000

I had a bad hard-drive. I went to the Apple store. They replaced the hard-drive, upgrading mine from 60GB to 80GB at no charge.

Same thing with my iPod... it stated to seize-up, so I took it in... they simply gave me a new one.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

D. D. Dee — Tue, 01 Jan 2008 22:09:37 -0000

Wow, this just gives me another reason not to buy from Apple. I have used many of their products and I have not been impressed by any, including the iPod and the iPhone. Just another reason to look elsewhere for your electronics needs.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

shae — Tue, 01 Jan 2008 01:05:52 -0000

The thing you signed says that they replace it for free and the one they took is theirs, the one you got is yours. It says you can have the old one IF you pay for the new one. You did, so the old one is yours-- right?

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

dan — Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:59:11 -0000

I think you missed the point. The apple guy told you the disc was bad for NOTHING. That is a $90 diagnosis at any PC shop.

We had the same problem, I ordered a new disk (non-apple) (the ibook was out of warranty) for $60. Since I had difficulty putting it in, we paid a apple certified tech (but not at an apple store), $90 to put it in. So it cost us around the same ~ $150, but if I had the right tools, it would have only been $60.

Still it was less than the extended service contract. ($250).

Free diagnosis for an out of warranty machine, not a bad service.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

esjr — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:15:26 -0000

Haha, here in Greece Apple is a rather popular brand of underwear...putting 'your' data in proprietary software is 1 thing...on proprietary hardware ??
If their name were MS we'd all be out with rakes, stakes, tar and feathers...
Ahhh, but like Adobe, their name starts with an A...so...
you tell me
I enjoy my Apple underwear though ;-)

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

rich — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:31:48 -0000

okay.... I can have any computer i want.... I own so many computers... I can't even tell you how many I have...

windows and macs...

in spite of these service issues.... which are extremely rare.... I will always choose a mac over windows..

Why? They are way better, less goes wrong with them, easier to learn and use.

The Imacs are the best computers ever made.... you would be foolish to buy anything else...

true there are some problems like you read here... very rare... don't let these problems stop you from buying a MAC... they are way worse on any windows computer...

most computer problems are caused by their owners or their owners friends... most problems have layers of crazy imagination piled on top of them... and most problems are made worse by the owner or their friends...

make friends with mac expert..... most of the Apple Geniuses are very inexperienced kids..

nice kids, smart kids, but mostly inexperienced....

You can not buy a better Computer Than an Mac... especially the new ones..

always buy a factory sealed carton.... get your best price... prices vary so little.. it could be to costly to shop around..

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

rich — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:20:12 -0000

A college professor PHd. father to one of our music students... brought his mac G4 Laptop to Apple Store for repair, it would not boot up.

Diagnosis, bad motherboard..... later I ask him to bring it to me... he said it was way to expensive to fix... more to fix than the street value of the laptop... It would not boot.. battery fully charged, I started it up in target mode, I coonect a fire wire to his laptop to my desktop G4 Emac... boot up my G4.... bingo his internal drive mounts.... I access it. an grab all his data -saved his ass- I run a hard drive utility on his hard drive... utility repaired a number of things, I then boot my G4 from his hard drive, Bingo... up and running okay..

I shut down both computers, boot his up.... BINGO up and running..... and still going... a week later he calls and tells me okay to dump his data...

What gives with the Apple Genius?

there was nothing wrong with the motherboard... or the hard drive...

Professor bought us a bottle of wine,,

cost.to fix.. zero

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Workerbee — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:53:06 -0000

Independent shop AppleTech worker bee, here, in an Apple Certified Repair and Warranty shop, and we always return the burned out parts to the customer, who often then asks us to send them on to the re-cycler, which we do.

The laptop 2.5 inch drives do tend to cost a bit more than the huge 3.5 inch desktop drives.
But, we get NEW, faster, 7200 rpm drives, with "Corporate" grade warranties of 5 years stamped on their labels. Not double price, though. Usually 1.5X. Hey, memory and drives fluctuate in price like gold, on the daily market!

Our customers return, bringing new customers! Yes, have had about 2 folks per year who would argue with a doorknob, just so they can be "right" and have the last word! Some folks
walk in our door, expecting a big ripoff, and don't respect the school, training, expertise, of real craftsmen, who take pride in our work!

Can't please them all, but, we do strive to please! Some jobs are not worth the investment, and we always give a written estimate on dropoff, under our state laws. We also save ALL the data, using techniques like freezing the bearings, and switching controllers, to get the old burned out drive to run just one last time!

We do the best we can, sometimes recovering data that otherwise would need to go to Drive Savers (whom our customers and we really appreciate!), at greater expense! When I tell you a drive is seized up, and I have no way of recovering your precious data, I recommend Drive Savers.

Digging into some laptops can take two hours of labor, and when done improperly, can destroy delicate circuitry, wiring, parts.

But, we are an INDEPENDENT shop, so can take better care of our customers. Also, you should realize, that in most corporations, the independent shops get charge backs if your system is screwed up by you, after our repair, even though some different trouble happened, just because your unit serial number showed up in the logs twice in 3 months!

That means we get charged back for the first repair to the harddrive, including all parts, when you spilled something or dropped the unit, and bring it to me to check out, within 3 calendar months!

Sometimes we ALL get screwed by corporate policies that are meant to "maximize profits" in order to please the shareholders. There IS a resolution path for consumers, visit Apple.com. Apple has the best record of serving the customers, in comparison to all the other computer makers!

One last thing. Whenever I see the media or consumers comparing a complete Apple, with full load of PRO software, with a Dell, equally fitted with hardware, but, only running trial or nagging short term software, I get so ticked! To complete the Dell, and protect from the million Microsoft Virus/Worms/Malware/bots/Exploits, over $650, usually about $950, must be invested by the poor MS Windows sap, AFTER the initial purchase!

Those who don't know history, are forced to repeat it!

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Chrisqus — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:31:45 -0000

Did you end up getting the drive back? The same thing happened to me and this is the speech I gave them:

me: ...So if I came in the store a bought your overpriced hard drive without needing a repair, would you install it for me?

genius: Sure.

me: So then don't "replace" my hard drive, just "sell" me one and install it genius!

It happened to be my wife's hard drive who's in real estate and she had over a year's worth of clients' personal financial information... there was no way that hard drive was going to just going to stay there because of some "policy" since a company like Apple should realize that customers may have their own policy which is to "get what you pay for" or "not getting screwed" for starters.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Pecos Bill — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:05:12 -0000

Although very crappy of Apple, shouldn't you read what you are signing? Maybe we'd be in less of a mortgage crisis if people did that......

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Ffakr — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:24:23 -0000

I don't doubt the numbers. Apple has had a lot of QC issues as their production has grown. The MacBooks in particular have had issues.
OTOH, I should point out that since I've been supporting Macs (over 10 years) Consumer Reports has been notably anti-Apple. Back when Apple was consistently rated #1 in Customer Support, Consumer Reports was panning Apple. The last time I check (or rather ran across the numbers) Apple was rated in the top 3 for Customer Approval ratings though they had fallen from #1. I don't recall who conducted the polling.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Ffakr — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:21:12 -0000

I call bullshit on this. At least, IF this is accurate you got a poorly trained Apple store and you need to report this to Apple.

First off, 2.5" hard drives cost more than 3.5" hard drives.
• Just because you can get a 500GB 3.5" for X dollars that doesn't translate to any like price for laptop hard drives. The largest 2.5" laptop drive is, I believe, still 250GB anyway so why are you referencing 500GB and 1TB drives other than to prejudice. Your comparison is Apples to Oranges. P.S. If you paid $150 for a 500GB Parallel or SATA drive recently you're an idiot. You can get an enterprise grade [1.5M hours MTBF] SATA for $140, and standard 500s go on sale regularly for under $100.
• You paid $160 for an 80GB drive INSTALLED. A child can swap a drive in a Macbook, they slide right out. That's a lot of an 80GB 160GB drive but not a lot to buy one and have it installed. Take a laptop to Geeksquad and see what it costs.
• You should have demanded the drive back or told them to remove the new drive and void the transaction. Apple, like any other vendor, puts very vague language in their contracts to cover all contingencies. You should be able to get a drive back from any Applestore if you buy one outright [out of warranty]. If this did, in fact, happen to you this is likely an aberration. You should call Apple and ask to talk to a manager. I believe the number is 1-800-sos-apple (yes, that's too many numbers but the trailing e won't dial, it's just easier to remember). I don't work for Apple but I suspect the language is there for expensive parts that can be refurbed easier like Flat Panels.

I support Apple machines, I've done this in Edu for years, sheesh.. over a decade now, but I started young.
Apple has had a lot of Quality Control issues over the recent years as their volume has increased and as they're relied increasingly on commodity asian parts makers and assemblers. The old iBook wiring fiasco immediately comes to mind.
Apple does, however, come through when the chips are down. They've offered extended warranties [eventually] on every QC issue that has occurred, even including the Fans in the G5s that were too loud (not faulty, just loud). I know a LOT of people who have received brand new laptops after 2 or 3 warranty repairs without raising a big stink.

Last time I checked Apple is still rated Top 3 consistently in Customer service. I'm not biased, I think Dell's current support is as good or better.

Contact Apple about this and express your frustration. I suspect that Apple corporate will have a talk with that Genius Bar.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Rick — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:22:57 -0000

Dell does the same thing, under warranty. When you buy a Dell there is an option on the order page to pay an extra fee to keep a bad hard drive, in the event of failure under warranty. If you don't pay the fee, the bad hard drive will stay with Dell -- along with any data that might survive the failure. It's a standard, if evil, practice.

For a part to get replaced under warranty, the maker wants the bad part back for accounting purposes. The bean counters need an assurance that the company isn't handing out free hard drives like business cards.

The good news here is that the MacBook and MacBook Pro's are designed for easy hard drive removal and replacement. The old PowerBooks and iBooks make the chore tedious, at best.

Recover your data with a cheap USB SATA adapter, buy a larger, faster, hard drive replacement, then take your dead MacBook to Apple for the warranty replacement. When they give back your MacBook, take out the replacement drive and install it in a FireWire case. then install the faster/bigger one in the MacBook. Keep good backups, get on with your life.

Hard Drives will fail. Apple's are no different (actually, they're exactly the same).

http://research.google.com/...

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Erica — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:03:55 -0000

Glad I read this. I've heard so much hype from Apple loyals, its good to hear the real deal. Its crazy that they won't return your damaged disc, and shouldn't there be some law that if you are paying for a new part, you should be allowed to know if its refurb or OEM new?

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:35:16 -0000

They key issue is in a warranty replacement, it would be standard to swap the part. But not that sounds horribly wrong with a typical harddrive replacement.

Maybe its the APPLE Repair center you need to boycott, not the company itself. Just take it somewhere else.

I replaced my 12" PB G4 harddrive... its not really very hard... just harder then any other laptop on the market. Most companies have a easy to remove panel that exposes the harddrive. So its obviously part of the racket, they know a certain percentage of drives fail, and they can recoup that cost be stealing your faulty drive, rebuilding it and selling it in another system.

I dont take my merc to the dealership for repair, I get better service at a small local shop.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Jesse — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 01:47:30 -0000

Dell is just as bad. Many of their components are proprietary and are designed specifically not to work with regular hardware, your better off building your own.

Re: Macs are even more expensive than I thought (Scripting News)

Esteban — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:15:54 -0000

Only logic boards are repaired when we talk about warranties, hard disks, displays, ALS, HDD, keyboards, etc ARE NOT refurbished or so. I am a ACDT/ACPT for Apple in Argentina. Dont know how do they do it in the US. Cheers!!