Scripting News - Latest Comments in My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Bernie from Planck's Constant — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 17:32:22 -0000

That blacks commit more crimes against blacks is a misleading statistic. Obviously because blacks live among other blacks they tend to commit more black on black crimes. But to see the true racist component in crime we need to see if blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks: Black murder of Whites is twice that of White murders of Blacks. Read
Why The MSM doesn`t Report Black on White Murders

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

davidlynch79 — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 08:25:24 -0000

I blame all 3 and you because you are a bush supporter, arent you? Face reality? Tell me, what you mean, is that just an empty response? Reality is 50% of Americans vote for someone who is a failure, and trying to avoid how our government works. STFU, unless you have something useful to say.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

SheldonRampton — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:48:08 -0000

By the way, here's a YouTube video that you might find amusing: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

SheldonRampton — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:44:49 -0000

This is of course a very minor point, but I don't think "disclaim" means what you think it means.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Matt — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:43:46 -0000

I hope, in that same vein, that the lot of white people improves, too. I like that as well. Barak's so dubbed "race speech" was, to me, a vital turning point in his campaign... words words words... then, all of a sudden... WORDS. Honest, brave, thought provoking words, words that other politicians are afraid of. It only strengthens my obsessive support of Senator Obama and confirms my notion that the reason I like him so much IS because of his words. The same thing I dislike about the rest of the candidates, their spiteful, wicked words. So thanks to them, and their pointing out the fact that Barack Obama can stand proud on his words, his words inspire people and give them hope. Nothing makes me more angry as a patriot than to hear an elected representative of the people bad-mouth hope. Bring on the race debate, it's about time... he is proving that change can happen. We are already witnessing change... to lose this momentum at such a vital time would be heartbreaking... tragic.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

dave — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:17:16 -0000

I think we all have racist thoughts and ideas, which some of us give voice to, and others don't. Maybe you have cleansed yourself, in which case congrats, but many of us still have work to do. On the other hand, if I disclaim that I have them, I can stop arguing about whether I have them or not. I do have them. That was the point of all my writing, and I think it worked for some people, and not for others. Now I'm going to move on to other topics. Peace brother. :-)

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Sven — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:09:59 -0000

When you put a scentence in quotes it implies he said it, when in fact those weren't his words but your own biased creation.
He did say he didnt know where Osama was. He also said, "I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban."
"He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it -- either we will or our friends will."

And since I dont hate Bush for the sake of hating him - I read the above as - We have turned Osama into an incapable non functioning non-entity. An acceptable state of affairs imho given the realities on ground(Pakistan-Afghanistan border).

There is a big difference between saying he is not important and saying we have made him unimportant. Or do we need to have a 'just words' debate.

It is reasonable to assume the US has the best trained and best equipped units in the world out there looking for him. And if they havent been able to locate Osama its only because it isn't easy.

Its very easy to mock/hate/ridicule Bush but do it right next time.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

SheldonRampton — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:17:36 -0000

I haven't made ANY generalizations about white people. YOU'RE the one who insists on making generalizations about people, and in fact brags about your newfound "freedom" to do so. ("Let us make generalizations about blacks and whites the way blacks always have. ... In all my years, I've only heard two images of whites from blacks.")

I haven't told any stories about being mistreated because of the color of my skin because it hasn't happened to me. The worst experience I ever had with black people happened 20+ years ago when I accidentally got off the subway in the middle of an all-black part of Brooklyn and didn't have money to get back on, so I had to walk home through an all-black neighborhood. Nothing happened to me except that some black kids hooted, "I think you're in the wrong neighborhood." That's pretty mild. In general when I've had dealings with people with dark skins, they've been as friendly and polite as the white people I know, and race isn't usually the topic we discuss. (The last conversation I had with a black guy was about whether he should use PayPal on his website.)

Of course, I've also had conversations with blacks where the issue of race is discussed, sometimes in a challenging way. For example, I was raised Mormon, and until 1979 the Mormon Church had a formal policy (known informally as the "Negro doctrine") which refused to allow blacks into their priesthood. When I was in high school, back around 1973, a black kid in my gym class came up to me and said, rather angrily, "I hear that Mormons think black people aren't allowed into heaven. Is that true?" It was an embarrassing and awkward moment for me, but I don't think it was "racist" for him to bring it up (even though he got the doctrine a little wrong). I had never agreed personally with the "Negro doctrine," so it felt a little unfair that he was putting me on the spot about it, but it's easy for me to understand his anger (and I'm rather proud that an uncle of mine was excommunicated from the church for protesting against the Negro doctrine).

As near as I can figure, you seem to think that the way I should have answered the black kid in my gym class would have been to call him a bigot, complain that all black people think alike about Mormons, and "flipping around" his statement by pointing out that Malcolm X once referred to white people as devils.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

dave — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:37:31 -0000

You that I haven't told any stories about my experience of being mistreated because of the color of my skin, but you haven't told any stories of your own. You've been telling other people's stories.

Re the rest of it, sorry I think I've tried the best I can to show you your racism. I find your generalizations about white people offensive, as a white person. I meant it when I said "ouch."

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Herb — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:20:06 -0000

George W. Bush, September 13 2001: "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden"

George W. Bush, March 13, 2002: "I don't know where bin Laden is. It's not that important."

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Sheldon Rampton — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:59:48 -0000

That's not "flipping it around." I stated that police are more likely to pull over black drivers than white drivers. That's a demonstrable fact, and it's something that happens SOLELY BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN. Your so-called "flipped-around" example would only be analogous if you had some reason for claiming that black haroin addicts are in the habit of raping "old defenseless white women" BECAUSE of the white color of their skin. (In fact, the evidence tells us the opposite. Most of the victims of black crimes are other blacks, not whites.)

Moreover, police are authority figures. Society puts guns in their hands and generally supports them in their use of force. They have the backing of state power behind them. That's quite different from the behavior of drug addicts, who don't have that kind of backing. When police behave in the fashion I described, it provides a basis in "actual lived experience" for some black people to believe that whites are, as you put it, "The man. We control everything. We're privileged. The oppressor. We coordinate to keep blacks out, to keep blacks down." I don't see how the actions of your hypothetical heroin addict (or, for that matter, of the person who actually mugged you in Jamaica) could possibly provide a basis in actual lived experience for anyone to conclude that blacks are privileged oppressors in American society.

In short, your attempt to prove some point by "flipping around" statements is deceptive because it suppresses the ways that people with dark skins actually get treated differently in our society than white people. I remember going shopping once with a Pakistani friend (then a graduate student, currently a professor of linguistics) and seeing a shopkeeper tell him to get out of the store because it was "obvious that you aren't going to buy anything." I don't think that sort of thing happens very often to white people. In fact, I've yet to see you produce an example from your personal experience of ever being mistreated because of the color of your skin.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Paul — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:53:39 -0000

As a Connecticut Republican, I don't think anybody should get away with the kind of Southern White Pride where you can fly the flag of what is essentially a defeated enemy of the United States of America, never mind what else it stands for.

Maybe this is an 80/20 problem. I'll agree with Dave that I'm a racist, because I sometimes overgeneralize and stereotype. Sometimes (not all the time) I get lazy and let this happen even though I know better. There are different triggers: skin color, hair color, national origin, sex, religion, accent, political affiliation, operating system choice, which web browser you prefer. Mostly I don't say anything offensive or try to treat them different but I find myself to be more guarded in my interactions with them. Especially the IE users. Take that as "less willing to trust" and I'm not talking about crossing to the other side of the street, I mean I may not bring up certain topics of conversation in front of some people because I think I'm being polite, sensitive to their feelings, but maybe I'm not helping the situation any. On the other hand maybe it comes across as patronizing and I don't mean it to. I'm sure at some level it can be perceived by others. Being able to ask a question: no really, why DO you like to eat that kind of food? would break down some barriers that really shouldn't be there to begin with. We're all too sensitive. Talk is a good idea.

Whether or not we mean to, by generalizing and stereotyping we mask and reinforce the 20% or less of real acts of racism and discrimination. This goes back and forth (as a Republican, I get lumped in with some pretty bad characters).

We can keep letting this go on, or get conscious about it. We can let Wright's words tear the country apart, or we can listen a little harder to what Obama was saying. Those are the words that should be replayed over and over. We can be proud in our own skin, but we need to come together, clear the air of the 80% of this which is not important, focus on fixing the rest, and be proud as Americans.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

dave — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:37:27 -0000

That's like saying "Let's make software with lots of bugs in it."

It's kind of an ironic, almost humorous statement, if you don't think a bug is the end of the world.

Which I don't. Software engineers always create bugs. And people always make generalizations about each other, mostly unfair. I've noticed however that blacks do it openly, on radio and TV, and this is considered fair, but whites have to do it in private.

You may think (as you say) that we should all stop, and I might even agree, but I don't have the power to make it stop. So I choose to accept it, and I think in doing so, we'll be better prepared to deal with it when it happens.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Josh — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:46:02 -0000

This is certainly a subject worthy of open dialogue and I appreciate your thoughts but I can't agree with this line:

"Let us make generalizations about blacks and whites the way blacks always have"

No, let's not do that. It seems obvious to me that making generalizations based on skin colour is the behaviour that needs addressing, not expanding.

We're all different, all have our own hang ups and prejudices but none of us is the same and sweeping generalisations, be it on race, gender, religion or sexual preference is, I think, the cause of most of the resentment (on all sides).

We should call out individuals who are displaying bigotry, not make new generalisations.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

dave — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:21:57 -0000

The best way to test it is to flip around one of your statements and see if you think it would be racist if a white person made a generalization about blacks. Start with...

"Maybe you think it's unfair that this anger sometimes gets generalized to include you, when you yourself have never detained a black driver or used a choke hold to subdue someone you were arresting."

Let's try flipping it around.

"Maybe you think it's unfair that this anger sometimes gets generalized to include you, when you yourself have never mugged or raped an old defenseless white woman on a dark street to pay for your heroin addiction."

Racist or not?

Sheldon, this would be a *good* place to cop to your racism, cause no one here will hold it against you.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Sven — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:53:26 -0000

Okay I'll name one -George W Bush. I personally think the most effective leaders are ones that have binary views of the world. They get things done. As much as everyone loves to criticize Bush about all their problems he has been an effective leader. His problem - bad luck - 9/11 and CDO's.
When he leaves office in Jan, he leaves this country a much safer place, which cant be said for Bill Clinton if you read what the 9/11 commision report had to say. I greatly doubt we would have the security we take for granted these days, if Al Gore had come to power.
The economy was booming up until august, that was with two wars being run for five years. The reason for the downturn was bunch of 'smart' phd types in the ibanks of wall street inventing instruments whose risk no one understood. Unfortunately, I dont think there is much difference between Clinton, Obama or McCain. None of them imo will be very effective leaders.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

nobbl — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 06:46:36 -0000

To begin with, there is only one human race. Genetics show, that your white neighbour may be more different from you as a black man in Uganda. So people adopt to external circumstances, but genetical we are all nearly equal. Yes there are differences, but they lie not in the race!

Norbert

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Kevitivity — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:35:12 -0000

You may want to blame Bush. Others blame FOX news. Still, other will blame "neocons". Take your pick.

Or you could face reality?

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

davidlynch79 — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:29:07 -0000

I have seen enough of these fucking posts, Obama is being swift-boated, and made to seem un-American, just as John Kerry was for, being called a un-hero who put his men at risk. America is pathetic, not because Wright is upset, but because Bush supports torture, and so does McCain. For some reason he went along with the legislation one month ago. How the media, can do this, and I don't watch the media, is a tragedy.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Kevitivity — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:56:03 -0000

This argument that Obama is using, that "everyone is a racist" so you should give me a pass, is really pathetic and unbecoming of someone seeking the presidency. It's an interesting argument, discussion wise, but Obama sought out this racist and anti-American church. He got the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope," from Rev. Jeremiah Wright. And now with some of the Church's bulletins coming out - most recently the pro Hamas documents, one gets the feeling that Obama thinks we are all chumps. The man has been a member of this temple of hate for over 20 years!!!

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

SheldonRampton — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 01:46:44 -0000

I would accept that judgment if you could explain how anything I said could plausibly be construed as racist.

It *is* a straw man argument for you to claim that all black people think a certain way, particularly since as my Spike Lee example illustrates, it is abundantly clear that this is not true. I think you know what a straw man argument is, and this is a textbook example. I don't see how it's racist for me to point that out.

You're also deliberately misconstruing my words when you claim I argued that you should "suck it up and accept our hate" because of the color of your skin. I never used the word hate. I used the word "anger." There's a difference. I think you know the difference, or at least you ought to, since there's a lot of obvious anger in your own tone.

What I ACTUALLY wrote is that there is a "basis in actual lived experience" for the anger that some black people express. I also wrote that "maybe that's unfair to you" when you experience it. Barack Obama made the same point in his speech, and since I gather that you're an Obama supporter (as am I), maybe you'll accept the point from him.

As for your claim that you "wrote what I knew about," one of the things that I find striking about your commentaries so far regarding race is how *little* they convey of any of your own personal experiences. Aside from some sweeping generalizations about how blacks are always hating on whites, you haven't described a single instance in which a black person has actually done anything hateful to you. You seem awfully aggrieved for someone who doesn't have any specific grievances to report.

One point of clarification: You seem to have assumed somehow that I am black. I get this impression from your attempt to claim that I said you should "accept our hate." I don't know why you would use the word "our" in this context unless you think I belong to the group of "blacks who hate whites." It happens, however, that I'm blonde and blue-eyed, of Scandinavian, French and British extraction.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

Herb — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:59:51 -0000

Name one politician that isn't a hypocrite. Heck, name one American (non-native) who's not a hypocrite.

I can tolerate some measure of hypocrisy - otherwise I would have killed myself a long time ago. The issue is whether or not you believe Obama's larger goals are good or bad for the country.

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

teehemkay — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:22:02 -0000

Hi, people call me tmk, and I'm a racist.

racism |ˈrāˌsizəm|

- the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

- prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief

I'm free of prejudices though. I dislike everyone equally.

Here's what I think.

Being racist is a characteristic of the human race as a whole regardless of color or any other attributes.
The problem is being racist *and* having (all the) power. That's the differentiating characteristic of white racism vs. black racism, non-arab israeli racism vs. palestinian racism, immigrant racism vs. native racism (e.g. in Brazil), etc.

If the the balance of power was inverted, it would produce similar effects (e.g. black people engaging in slavery of white people etc).

If one is from the racist-with-power side, it doesn't matter how clever or educated or compassionate or whatever she is. She simply can't appreciate what it is like to be from the other side. It has everything to do with the experience of being from the other side. In the same way that one cannot "understand" a culture in reference to another one. You have to live it.
So people in power might as well stop pretending they understand. They. do. not.

= tmk =

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

TalentSynch — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:40:33 -0000

I guess I should clarify my thinking around dialogue. I believe that candid, authentic dialogue is what moves people to action and that's what gets stuff done. Dialogue facilitates change, stimulates the mind and challenges beliefs - some that have been buried along the way. So, perhaps its more appropriate to thank you for a bit of an awakening that is challenging how I see the world today and what I want to see differently tomorrow.

Susan

Re: My name is Dave and I'm a racist (Scripting News)

TalentSynch — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:59 -0000

Just wanted to send a BIG thank you for the content you've been creating and sharing around the race dialogue. I find it very refreshing, candid, authentic and courageous. I discovered your writings via a twitter feed several days ago and am now a regular reader and follower. I find I'm relying less and less on traditional media sources each day as I discover more brilliant thinkers like yourself.

Thanks for the dialogue!!!
Susan
@talentsynch on twitter