Scripting News: The First Church of Scoble (Scripting News)
moon
· 11 months ago
Arrington and Calacanis only spam Twitter, Robert is getting to know more people every day and learning more about them.
dave
· 11 months ago
It could be that challenging him is their way of learning.
Scobleizer
· 11 months ago
Interesting post and one I'll consider! I clicked like on it in friendfeed so that all my followers could see it. I also retweeted it. I think I'll do a video on how to get rid of Robert Scoble out of your view. It's actually not that hard thanks to the "block" feature in friendfeed.
TDavid
· 11 months ago
Scoble -- or any other niche web celebrity -- isn't too difficult to get rid of and it starts by reducing and/or not writing about him, Dave, like what wasn't done above. If people stopped mentioning him then the annoyance factor of his web celebrity would begin to correct itself. It's the CatchScoble 22.
The thing is Scoble talks to interesting people doing interesting things and that's always been the draw. I wonder how many others are attracted to the same thing?
When I say to myself: I'm not going to get sucked into Scoble's latest whatever, his good writing skills usually bring me into the fold. That and Scoble is one of the all around nice guys on the web. He is more human and real than a lot of other phony niche web celebs seem to be, so I don't get that "annoyed" when I see him getting lots of attention, rather I think to myself: hey, at least a nice guy is getting some.
matt
· 11 months ago
Yep, he has 40,000 close friends.
mkrigsman
· 11 months ago
Scoble is top of mind on your agenda. Interesting.
dave
· 11 months ago
What does that mean?
mkrigsman
· 11 months ago
Scoble has precisely achieved one of his goals -- remaining top of mind. You find it annoying, but it doesn't change that fact. At least he's trying a different approach from the rest of the pack, which I applaud.
Your points regarding Arrington and Calacanis are dead on. They have a deep abiding interest in protecting the status quo. Given that interest, their reactions are predictable as clockwork.
That's how I feel about Scoble "remaining top of mind."
mkrigsman
· 11 months ago
Dave, Not to put too fine a point on it, but you did write a post focused on Scoble. How should the interested reader interpret that?
Scobleizer
· 11 months ago
That's actually not one of my goals. My goals with friendfeed are: 1. Have interesting conversations with interesting people. This is where you can see those: http://friendfeed.com/scobleizer/comments 2. Share the best items in the real time web with others so both the best voices and new voices get exposed. This is where you can see those: http://friendfeed.com/scobleizer/likes 3. Listen to what people are saying so that I am more informed about the online world, which makes my interviews at http://www.fastcompany.tv and http://www.kyte.tv/scobleizer better. 4. Bug Dave Winer. :-)
mkrigsman
· 11 months ago
Robert, The three (or four) goals you mentioned certainly reflect your actions.
But, remaining top of mind gets you followers. It's naive to think your access and position is independent of these followers, and you don't strike me as a naive person. Of course, your sponsors are also not unaware of that legion of followers.
mkrigsman
· 11 months ago
John Sumser
· 11 months ago
Sidestepping the personality issues, I'm facing a major integration problem. My communications pipeline, which once had a simple email, phone, news (RSS) and web segments, is now so fractured that I am losing focus and productivity. Actionable requests (what used to be email) pour in from many sources with no way to really administer the process.
What seems to be happening is the emergence of a really distributed communication system. No center. Not even really central personalities. It's more like little nichey universes each with their own center. It my even be as distributed as a universe for each citizen of the world.
What's missing is an interface that lets me plug my pieces into my life. (not, me learning how to live in someone else's worldview) And, it's not going to be another knockoff of the big media model.
I'm anxious to see it emerge and bet that 2009 will get us closer.
dave
· 11 months ago
John, I absolutely agree. We've been busy for the last few years blowing everything up. Inevitably, what comes next is a re-integration, where all our data comes home.
John Sumser
· 11 months ago
It would be interesting to see what your audience thinks that looks like. I want a FMS (Friend Management System) that let's me keep important relationships like ours (never met you, loosely know you, follow your stuff, exchanged some email) in a balanced view with other (more intimate?) relationships and still others levels of intimacy.
My world is rarely all or nothing (though it's fun to poke into the brawls once in a while). My relationships are spectral and I really want to easily discover what each of them are doing and thinking as it becomes easier to do so.
I just don't want more firehose and I really need to be able to track and remember what I've promised to do.
Sameer
· 11 months ago
You make a number of points here - Im just focusing on the issue of whether Scoble is wasting his time on Twitter and FF.
Both Twitter and Friendfeed have got to be aware of the risks to their businesses if the voices on their platforms move back to blogging b.c that's where they are making money directly or indirectly.. My bet is that both these platforms are seriously considering (or should consider) one of their monetization paths where they show ads as part of the users tweet streams and share the revenue with those users. Somewhat similar to how feedburner started making money. This closes the deal on creating a sticky service not just based on network effects but also the promise of hard cash.
Once that happens the distribution that these platforms can provide to Scoble (or anyone) can be fantastic. Also it drives traffic back to Scobles blog so he's now got 2 revenue streams.
Louis Gray
· 11 months ago
There's no one right way to use any of these services. I believe what Robert and others have done is show that you go to where the conversation is, not just where you want it to be. Those whose online entities are almost solely centered around their blogs would love to keep the conversation there. But what Robert and others have done is extend their visibility beyond blogs to these new services that have cropped up, while others have chosen not to.
Given I don't run ads on my blog, it doesn't harm me financially if I am spending time away from the blog. I don't get a nickel for commenting on your site, right? Does that mean I am wasting my time here?
Technology does evolve, as you said. Conversation and community has evolved as well. And some individuals have gotten at the forefront of that evolution. At this point in time, Arrington and others are right that they have a greater total share of the visibility, visitors, comments, etc., but it may not always be that way.
I also don't believe that we are hurting ourselves by using tools that work well. Twitter, FriendFeed, Facebook, YouTube, Socialmedian, Strands, Digg... they are all tools that can be leveraged. You would be remiss to ignore them.
Mark Krynsky
· 11 months ago
Good points Louis. Especially that last paragraph. Many of these other social media services just act as outposts where we can engage with users outside the confines of our own blogs.
Think of it as an analogy where your house was your blog, you can't always expect your friends to come over. You have to go out and meet them in environments where they choose to hang out. Ultimately though you will develop relationships where they are invited back to your home.
I pulled up my top 10 referrer stats for 2008 for Lifestream Blog and guess what? FriendFeed came in at #1 and Twitter came it at #5. So I think the value of hanging out and engaging on those sites are valueable and a must to get your message out there.
Kage
· 11 months ago
I agree on the Scoble getting annoying part..
GrowMap
· 11 months ago
How would your prediction that blogging Twitter will merge differ from reading blog posts in RSS or any other aggregator? The reason people like Scoble are popular is that through interacting with them other bloggers can get noticed and visited. It is the discussions between the blogs that are the value. Eliminating them and only having "a handful of anlysts" would not do.
dave
· 11 months ago
IMHO and YMMV --> There's no value in being "noticed and visited."
GrowMap
· 11 months ago
Are we arguing semantics or substance? Unless you make a connection it is impossible to have a discussion. While I am interested in what Scoble says, I am far more interested in reading what others have to share.
I suspect you don't REALLY want to know what I'm online for, but I'll tell you anyway. To connect, learn, and share what I've figured out so that others don't have to reinvent the wheel. To explain complex subjects in a way that anyone new to that subject can actually understand. To change the world by assisting those who are contributors with integrity maximize what THEY do.
dave
· 11 months ago
What I'm trying to do: I want to figure out how the next layer of the blogosphere forms out of the tools we're using today. I don't think the evolution is finished, not by a long shot. I'm not here to build my name as a brand, or be part of a conversation, or to get ad revenue for my blog, or impress anyone. I'm here to figure out how it works. Maybe it would be helpful if everyone else said what they're here for.
gregorylent
· 11 months ago
next layer of the blogosphere ....
.. a table of several people at a cafe, all conversations streaming by, can join any or several .. closer to real life ... real-time, the comments are the blog
Mona N.
· 11 months ago
I am here because I love people, engaging with people, and learning from those I interact with -- daily. That said, moving forward it's about choices. The ease of publishing across various platforms enables everyone to have a voice. But more importantly: be heard. We can now choose our authorities; who we want to learn from, listen to, and engage with. Isn't that what the Internet is all about?
dave
· 11 months ago
I think it's about different things to different people, but I support your effort to love people, and engage with them. I am a regular reader of yours, and never fail to be entertained and touched by your creations. :-)
Mona N.
· 11 months ago
The greatest part about engaging is when it comes to product/new technology/new site and service reviews, I trust opinions of those I know and are familiar with technology, than XX site telling me what to and not to like. That's a huge reason why I value FriendFeed so much. We discuss everything from bacon to Jailbreaking iPhones, why Twitter sucks/rules, pros/cons of netbooks, etc., etc. :) But like you said, to each their own: Choices. ps: Thank you for your words, Dave. They mean a lot. :) Especially since you're a pretty intelligent man - but don't tell anyone I said that!
jason
· 11 months ago
That's actually a fairly good point. Perhaps Twitter will do to Blogs what the quick pace of blogs did to newspapers... of course, I really think the limitations in length limit what can be accomplished.
Your thesis above is a solid and could not have been made in Twitter unless you did at least 10-15 tweets.
CB Radio is a lot of fun when you're on a road trip with three other cars, but it doesn't replace the telephone.
mfruchter
· 11 months ago
If the volume is to much simply unsubscribe, and turn off FOAF while you are at it.. Scoble is informative and adds value. If you cant take the heat maybe you shouldn't be in the kitchen.
Mona N.
· 11 months ago
Mike - what do you think about content ownership? Are you ok with having Twitter, FriendFeed, and various aggregating sites owning, for a lack of better term, what you and others contribute to these services? Or is that even an issue?
mfruchter
· 11 months ago
Mona, for me personally It's not an issue. For what I input into these services, the output is much more valuable. It's a small price we all pay for using these services. I'm all for data-portability with our social graphs, content etc, but we are nowhere near reaching that horizon just yet. These services may stake claim to our content, but the distribution it provides for me is well worth its weight in gold, and the price I'm paying in comparison is small.
Hutch Carpenter
· 11 months ago
Dave - Nice one here. I'm intrigued by your points about Arrington and Calacanis, desiring to cling to the status quo. Because there is truth there, but blogging will still be around too. It's just that Twitter, Facebook, FriendFeed open up sharing well beyond blogs. And you are hitting on something else even for regular bloggers - Twitter, et al will become an essential part of the mix.
Long form blogging will still have its place. Longer developed posts, with analysis and perspective. For a lot of non-technologists (professionals in other fields), it is an essential component of a full online persona.
dave
· 11 months ago
I used the word "quaint" to describe the aggregation they do, but I could have used the word "pioneering" as well. It's all going to come together in customized views, that's what Twitter and Facebook with their arrangements of news feeds are bootstrapping. We've broken things up into very small bits, now they're going to come back together, they're already coming back -- when it's done TechCrunch will have missed an opportunity, imho. I talked about this with Mike on the phone last week. If I were him, I'd open up the TechCrunch franchise to publishing the work of a lot more people. That's the way to embrace the change that's coming.
Hutch Carpenter
· 11 months ago
Interesting thoughts there Dave. I hear shades of what is undoing the newspaper industry. One other thing I hear there...sounds like there'd still need to be some sort of editor on a site, managing the various bits of multiple contributors. True?
cshotton
· 11 months ago
If Twitter and blogging merge, you've pretty much just recreated UseNet with a Web interface instead of a NNTP reader. The idea of many people reading the posts of a few and being able to interject comments is the gist of UseNet. Longer posts with commentary (blogs merged with Twitter) are indistinguishable UseNet. The only substantial difference is the ability to easily mute people. Nothing new under the sun...
sameasiteverwas
· 11 months ago
Well, there is the distinction that Twitter limits your posts to 140 characters. So you've recreated Usenet, only less useful.
danlyke
· 11 months ago
Matter of opinion, no? Someone once quipped that "Usenet is wisdom in homeopathic doses", seems like 140 characters might help distill it back to effective levels of dilution?
Having said that, I both miss NNTP and think it was a technology that needed fixing, not superseding by all of the technologies which increase server load and centralize data, but perhaps that's what was necessary to balkanize the discussion (Props to Elf Sternberg for his "Balkanize Usenet" manifesto and that simile).
I update Facebook and Twitter simultaneously, I'm happy to update anything else that comes along, but I'm also logging those updates to my own databases so that I can still own that data. Don't know what to do with it, except perhaps publish it as an RSS feed (although that loses the "interact with others" nature of the two), but I very much see my use of Twitter and Facebook as something I need to find and/or develop an alternative to.
most people on twitter
· 11 months ago
"You can't be on Twitter or FriendFeed and not be inundated with comments from and about Scoble." -- Sure you can.. I don't subscribe to him on either.. viola.. it really ain't that hard dave
Anthony Farrior
· 11 months ago
Scoble is like the PC on EagleEye[spoiler alert]. He's everywhere you need to be internet-wise and apparently has more power than any one person should have...
BillyWarhol
· 11 months ago
Sheeesh it's gettin' UGLY out there!! ;)) Glad U raised the Rich point of Boring Text Twitter that Far Superior Services like FriendFeed currently enjoy! Twitter completely misses the Boat on Web2.0 Comments + Social Interaction as swell* I also Hope we can Dump Butt Ugly MicroPOOP Windoze style Plain black on white rampant in WordPress + move on to a WEB3D.0 Browser experience exemplified by Cooliris* Surely if Television can go HD w/ Full Surround Sound than the Internet can Get with da Program!
p.s. I like Scoble! ;)) Peace*
Jordi Soler
· 11 months ago
Here's the thing: I'm not a techie guy, never was. Some time ago I started following Scoble's blog and thanks to him now I have a presence in Twitter and Friendfeed. And thanks to him I can now have interesting debates in internet that I was not able to have in my little blog. So, for me, in a way Scoble was a blessing, and got me interested in plenty of tech stuff that I wasn't aware of, up to the point that now I'm starting to think seriously about abandoning my blog and establishing my social base in Twitter/Friendfeed.
As to the merging of Twitter+blogging, I've tried Twitblogs and now I'm using Twitwall. I find those services amazing, although still in the early stages. But I think they will become the future because:
1. People can follow everything you do just from your Twitter account 2. Forget about fancy domain names and all that stuff for your website: it's all linked to your Twitter 3. Your templates are all the same in all your websites 4. You can easily identify your commenters just by clicking on their name and have access to their twits
fredwilson
· 11 months ago
great point about posterous and tumblr showing the way forward dave. i have a blog, a twitter account, and a tumblog. and for me, there are different use cases for each of them. but i do think tumblr does a good job of being the best of both worlds.
>>if there were a way to segment the Twittersphere, I'd like to be in the part where Scoble isn't the main topic of conversation 24-by-7.>>
You do realize that this segment you yearn for exists in the larger world, the one outside of the Silicon Valley bubble, right? That only a percentage of people using Twitter work in technology or its related fields and that as Twitter grows, that percentage will grow smaller. That other sectors do not have their own Scobles and Kawasakis and that non-tech users tend not to follow/be followed by people they don't actually know, with the possible exception of a celebrity Twitterer like Shaq or Britney (with whom they have zero expectations of reciprocity) or a broadcast-only news feed like the New York Times.
Not intending to trivialize your concerns, but I wish more in the tech field would realize that the behavior patterns being discussed in this thread are anything but universal.
marshal sandler
· 11 months ago
Recently I have been deleting most of the people on my twitter account not out of anger I just find micro blogging apps of no real value ! I have a Blog and a Tumblog Posterous account ! I follow you and a few people who have interesting articles on Tabbloid a free service from Hewlett Packard ! I agree with Mr Wilson on Tumblr and recently I added An application to my Browser called Glue it handles most of my bookmarking needs ! I respect Mr Wilson's opinion since he has been involved in I think Tumblr and Glue these two items are excellent but the Micro Blogging idea may just be another Edsel ! Recently all my twitter requests are from internet marketing Gurus ! At 72 years old I am my own Guru ! Feliz Ano Nuevo
All Comments
The thing is Scoble talks to interesting people doing interesting things and that's always been the draw. I wonder how many others are attracted to the same thing?
When I say to myself: I'm not going to get sucked into Scoble's latest whatever, his good writing skills usually bring me into the fold. That and Scoble is one of the all around nice guys on the web. He is more human and real than a lot of other phony niche web celebs seem to be, so I don't get that "annoyed" when I see him getting lots of attention, rather I think to myself: hey, at least a nice guy is getting some.
Your points regarding Arrington and Calacanis are dead on. They have a deep abiding interest in protecting the status quo. Given that interest, their reactions are predictable as clockwork.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_SwD7RveNE
That's how I feel about Scoble "remaining top of mind."
1. Have interesting conversations with interesting people. This is where you can see those: http://friendfeed.com/scobleizer/comments
2. Share the best items in the real time web with others so both the best voices and new voices get exposed. This is where you can see those: http://friendfeed.com/scobleizer/likes
3. Listen to what people are saying so that I am more informed about the online world, which makes my interviews at http://www.fastcompany.tv and http://www.kyte.tv/scobleizer better.
4. Bug Dave Winer. :-)
But, remaining top of mind gets you followers. It's naive to think your access and position is independent of these followers, and you don't strike me as a naive person. Of course, your sponsors are also not unaware of that legion of followers.
What seems to be happening is the emergence of a really distributed communication system. No center. Not even really central personalities. It's more like little nichey universes each with their own center. It my even be as distributed as a universe for each citizen of the world.
What's missing is an interface that lets me plug my pieces into my life. (not, me learning how to live in someone else's worldview) And, it's not going to be another knockoff of the big media model.
I'm anxious to see it emerge and bet that 2009 will get us closer.
My world is rarely all or nothing (though it's fun to poke into the brawls once in a while). My relationships are spectral and I really want to easily discover what each of them are doing and thinking as it becomes easier to do so.
I just don't want more firehose and I really need to be able to track and remember what I've promised to do.
Both Twitter and Friendfeed have got to be aware of the risks to their businesses if the voices on their platforms move back to blogging b.c that's where they are making money directly or indirectly.. My bet is that both these platforms are seriously considering (or should consider) one of their monetization paths where they show ads as part of the users tweet streams and share the revenue with those users. Somewhat similar to how feedburner started making money. This closes the deal on creating a sticky service not just based on network effects but also the promise of hard cash.
Once that happens the distribution that these platforms can provide to Scoble (or anyone) can be fantastic. Also it drives traffic back to Scobles blog so he's now got 2 revenue streams.
Given I don't run ads on my blog, it doesn't harm me financially if I am spending time away from the blog. I don't get a nickel for commenting on your site, right? Does that mean I am wasting my time here?
Technology does evolve, as you said. Conversation and community has evolved as well. And some individuals have gotten at the forefront of that evolution. At this point in time, Arrington and others are right that they have a greater total share of the visibility, visitors, comments, etc., but it may not always be that way.
I also don't believe that we are hurting ourselves by using tools that work well. Twitter, FriendFeed, Facebook, YouTube, Socialmedian, Strands, Digg... they are all tools that can be leveraged. You would be remiss to ignore them.
Think of it as an analogy where your house was your blog, you can't always expect your friends to come over. You have to go out and meet them in environments where they choose to hang out. Ultimately though you will develop relationships where they are invited back to your home.
I pulled up my top 10 referrer stats for 2008 for Lifestream Blog and guess what? FriendFeed came in at #1 and Twitter came it at #5. So I think the value of hanging out and engaging on those sites are valueable and a must to get your message out there.
I suspect you don't REALLY want to know what I'm online for, but I'll tell you anyway. To connect, learn, and share what I've figured out so that others don't have to reinvent the wheel. To explain complex subjects in a way that anyone new to that subject can actually understand. To change the world by assisting those who are contributors with integrity maximize what THEY do.
.. a table of several people at a cafe, all conversations streaming by, can join any or several .. closer to real life ... real-time, the comments are the blog
Your thesis above is a solid and could not have been made in Twitter unless you did at least 10-15 tweets.
CB Radio is a lot of fun when you're on a road trip with three other cars, but it doesn't replace the telephone.
Long form blogging will still have its place. Longer developed posts, with analysis and perspective. For a lot of non-technologists (professionals in other fields), it is an essential component of a full online persona.
have used the word "pioneering" as well. It's all going to come together in
customized views, that's what Twitter and Facebook with their arrangements
of news feeds are bootstrapping. We've broken things up into very small
bits, now they're going to come back together, they're already coming back
-- when it's done TechCrunch will have missed an opportunity, imho. I talked
about this with Mike on the phone last week. If I were him, I'd open up the
TechCrunch franchise to publishing the work of a lot more people. That's the
way to embrace the change that's coming.
Having said that, I both miss NNTP and think it was a technology that needed fixing, not superseding by all of the technologies which increase server load and centralize data, but perhaps that's what was necessary to balkanize the discussion (Props to Elf Sternberg for his "Balkanize Usenet" manifesto and that simile).
I update Facebook and Twitter simultaneously, I'm happy to update anything else that comes along, but I'm also logging those updates to my own databases so that I can still own that data. Don't know what to do with it, except perhaps publish it as an RSS feed (although that loses the "interact with others" nature of the two), but I very much see my use of Twitter and Facebook as something I need to find and/or develop an alternative to.
p.s. I like Scoble! ;)) Peace*
As to the merging of Twitter+blogging, I've tried Twitblogs and now I'm using Twitwall. I find those services amazing, although still in the early stages. But I think they will become the future because:
1. People can follow everything you do just from your Twitter account
2. Forget about fancy domain names and all that stuff for your website: it's all linked to your Twitter
3. Your templates are all the same in all your websites
4. You can easily identify your commenters just by clicking on their name and have access to their twits
i blogged a bit about this in late 2007
http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2007/12/social-blogging...
You do realize that this segment you yearn for exists in the larger world, the one outside of the Silicon Valley bubble, right?
That only a percentage of people using Twitter work in technology or its related fields and that as Twitter grows, that percentage will grow smaller.
That other sectors do not have their own Scobles and Kawasakis and that non-tech users tend not to follow/be followed by people they don't actually know, with the possible exception of a celebrity Twitterer like Shaq or Britney (with whom they have zero expectations of reciprocity) or a broadcast-only news feed like the New York Times.
Not intending to trivialize your concerns, but I wish more in the tech field would realize that the behavior patterns being discussed in this thread are anything but universal.