Scripting News: Why most conferences suck (Scripting News)
eastgate
· 2 years ago
One good thing to do at a good conference is: listen to the speakers.
This presupposes that the speakers have something interesting to say, something you want to hear. At a scientific conference, for example, they should have results -- new knowledge that you want. That, incidentally, is why program committees work so hard to screen papers!
This even works, occasionally, in computer science conferences. At OOPSLA this year, you could spend the entire conference in keynotes and invited talks, and even if you were an insider and had heard all these people before, you'd get a ton of new information. Stuff you need.
A lower standard is that most of the talks be interesting, and some of them have impact on your work. ACM Hypertext is like that: a decent session is bound to suggest a new feature for Tinderbox or a new way to approach hypertext reading.
Lots of tech conferences don't meet this standard. I don't know why; I think your crusade to fix the problem is really important to the field. But keep in mind that, sometimes, the best way to spend an hour is to listen to what someone with a good idea or a new discovery has to tell you all.
dave
· 2 years ago
Thanks Mark. That needed to be said.
Bill Rice
· 2 years ago
This is why I have been a big proponent of your unconference format (and used it in my own Leads2007). I also borrowed the concept of having group dinners like you did at BloggerCon. I think it is really powerful to extend the discussion beyond the discussion room and press people together in a meal. Something about sharing a meal creates tight, lasting connections and open, sharing dialogue.
I still want to see/do your HyperCamp (http://tinyurl.com/kfnry), but I haven't figured out the right context or audience to do it with yet. Keep up the critical thinking!
dave
· 2 years ago
BTW, I don't think even the BloggerCon style unconference is any kind of a panacea. I stopped doing them because the idea had plateaued (is that a word?). People have to be committed to getting stuff done if it's going to work.
At first the joy of finding out that everyone has something to say is overwhelming, that was the first two BCs for me. But after that, it wasn't that big a thrill, then it mattered more what they had to say.
I'm trying something new at LeWeb3, with Loic's blessings, a way to bring the world into the event, I think there's a pretty good chance it'll work and provide people with a fresh and interesting experience. I hope to learn a lot from it. (And of course report the results here.)
Bill Rice
· 2 years ago
Plateaued is something that happens so if it isn't a word it should be.
I like the idea thread on the LeWeb3. If I am on track with your teaser, I think this is awesome. I have struggled several times to bring the Internet (world) community into the event and get the event to extend seamlessly out into the Internet (world) community.
It is a tough barrier to break, and I think the barrier is more mental (or maybe effective rendering) than anything. I think it is a UI (big concept, not software-only connotation) problem.
dave
· 2 years ago
Agreed. And in order for it to work it has to feel natural.
Tim Coyne
· 2 years ago
Dave, I assume you're talking about conferences rather than "unconferences." Right?
The expectation that a conference provides you with something to do seems to be one of the reasons why you and others have been so supportive of the "unconference" approach. The conference is yours. Its up to you to make it interesting. Its up to you to do something if you want to do something. The reason i would go to a conference or unconference would be to to learn something new and meet people.
Maybe you're just in a different place in your career than most. You've not trying to land a new gig or advance your career (I'm assuming).You've met most of these people before. And most speakers aren't telling you anything new. Maybe you're just conferenced out. Maybe there's really no good reason for you to go to any of these conferences.
The last thing i want a conference to do is to give me stuff to do.
dave
· 2 years ago
Actually the term "unconference" has come to mean something different from the format I liked, which was fairly structured around a discussion leader who was like an editor.
You're right about me being in a different place. I'm really not trying to get anywhere. I'm pretty satisfied with where I am. Not a bad feeling, btw. Not much yearning for something better. I've more or less got what I wanted, and want.
Doc Searls
· 2 years ago
That's why I like the Internet Identity Workshops. They're about doing stuff.
But then they're workshops, not conferences.
Seth
· 2 years ago
My experiences here in New York have been similar although, I suspect, worse. Madison Avenue is still very much in charge here and it's all buying and selling. Your either a VC (which I'm not) or you have a start-up (which I don't), otherwise, as you said, might as well check your mail. Here, when you answer the 'so, why are you here' question with 'just wanted to meet people, talk shop' they look at you like your from a different planet (which you are).Unlike you, I don't think I've EVER had a 'good conversation' at one of these things, not in the way human beings usually classify 'good conversation', just a lot of phoney, empty pleasantries and business card exchange--which, for the most part, end up crumpled on the bottom of my laundry machine. Not saying I'm against VCing or entrepreneurship, but if these places are going to have all the charm of the NYSX trading floor, why bother going?
dave
· 2 years ago
Seth that's interesting. These days I usually do have one or two good conversations, but a number of years ago, when I was a nobody, and no one cared what I thought, I had the same general experience you did. Most people looking at me with disdain, because I didn't have anything they wanted. I couldn't give them money or press coverage. It was very much a pecking order thing, and I was at or near the bottom of the ladder.
These days I have a different experience because (I guess) I do have something some people want -- the ability to promote their ideas. But I've learned that this isn't friendship, and I nowadays I actually prefer to be anonymous at the conferences I go to, so I can learn something. The ones I get something out of are the ones that are so far out of my field that just watching how people interact differently gets me some value. For example, I went to two conferences in Boston this year like that: The NPR conference and Wikimania. Not very many people from tech at either of these, therefore it was a different experience. However most people had heard of me.
I'm going to LeWeb3 which will have *all* the usual suspects. I do this because I enjoy Loic's company, and I think it will be interesting to see people I know in Europe and it's been a long time since I've been to Paris, so... It should be a reasonably fun trip. :-)
Lucius Kwok
· 2 years ago
Some conferences make a point to bring people together at meals and social events, while others, typically the large ones, are a free for all. But either way, if you're a wallflower and don't go up to people and try to a have a real conversation (instead of "making nice"), no conference organizer is going to provide you with enough to do. You were at C4[1] right?
Joe Tennis
· 2 years ago
I'm with you - there are very few traditional confances, espacially in this country, that are worth my time... they're prolly worth the money, just not the time.
Most conferences suffer from two maladies. 1) they don't go deep enough: they tell you what you could get in 10 minutes at Borders reading book covers and 2) There's no real dialog: the three people who get in on the 2 minute Q&A after a 28 minute PPT death march ask banal questions... How about an IM stream rolling down a screen adjacent to the preso so the audience could add depth, color, rebuttal or context to the speakers words.
Dave Martin
· 2 years ago
Dave,
Agree with this and your previous posts on the state of conferences. Your suggestion to involve others outside the venue is brilliant. My sense is too much conference bandwidth is being dedicated to self-serving and often boring infomercials.
Antje Wilsch
· 2 years ago
Dave, that's why companies pay good money to have booths in the exhibition halls... hoping some of the lonely, bored souls will come and talk to us about what we have to offer and learn more about us. Go look at the small booths, the one who have balanced if they can afford the booth/ transportation/ flyer/ employee etc. costs, not the big fancy ones (although some of those are fun too but usually more for show).
derricks
· 2 years ago
Your point about taking advantage of the venue is a good one. So far, I've gone to a wine writers' conference every year since its inception (almost 4 years ago). It's held at Meadowood, a fancy-pants resort up in St. Helena. But the conference takes up so much time that we don't get to take advantage of the spa and sports facilities.
On the other hand, they are giving us stuff to do: Several of the sessions are focused on writing exercises, there are nice dinners every night, and one of the days is spent at the Culinary Institute of America. So, no complaints; I just always find it funny.
The other "conference" I try to go to every year is International Puzzle Party. There's lots of stuff to do there, of course, in the form of playing with new puzzles, but the organizers always make an effort to get us to some events that give a sense of the color of the city we're in.
Antje Wilsch
· 2 years ago
wine writer's? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron? :) what's the group name/ url/ etc?
Ontario Emperor
· 2 years ago
Two perspectives-as a conference co-organizer for the users of our product, we effectively have to "fight Disneyland" - in other words, to keep attendees in the hotel rather than have them skip the sessions and go up the freeway to Anaheim. Conference organizers (primarily customers themselves) try to provide meaningful sessions, but our vertical market isn't necessarily riveting at all times. Still, we've been told by outsiders that our conference is the best in our industry - which makes me wonder about the others.
As a conference attendee, the only two conferences that I've attended/will attend this year are one for our vertical market, and Oracle OpenWorld next week. Somehow I don't think you were thinking of OpenWorld when you were musing about conferences - if anything, Oracle OpenWorld has too much to do.
Now that I think about it, the users that run our conference like to have several concurrent sessions at once. I haven't been so hot on the idea (you end up with sessions with just a few people there), but perhaps they have a point.
Steve Kirks
· 2 years ago
I love the new comment system--if you just want "Dave", read the front page and you're happy. If you want "Dave and discussion", go to that story's page. Is there any way to put the comment RSS info in the head of the HTML so autodiscovery will work?
LloydDavis
· 2 years ago
I've just come back from the Web2.0Expo in Berlin, where I spent approximately 10-15 minutes in total in the cavernous conference hall and the rest of the time presenting and talking in a variety of forms with new people and old friends in the web2open bit which was basically just 3 rooms on the expo floor and a grid that got filled every day. I learned a huge amount.
Yes I also did some childish taunting of our "host" http://seesmic.com/Standalone.swf?video=pLt5Qo9IE4 but the best bits were talking to German people (who generously spoke as much English as they could) - and some Americans (though they need to brush up their English more) about what we had in common regardless of nationality and location. I'd strongly encourage you to speak to plenty of mainland Europeans when you're at LeWeb.
And since what you get out of anything depends on what you're willing and able to put in, I'd suggest that the best way to make sure "that everyone has something to do at all times" is to make sure there are plenty of opportunities to contribute - which I see you've already started on for LeWeb - Thanks!
I think you could do more with Second Life. Just log in when you can, save on airfare. Do the pod idea, but for less. Have continuous partial attention if need be -- or highly-intensive focused groups with "soul-to-soul" communication. You can have land that you lock down to a group and remove distractions, so you don't have to think of Second Life as a place where "unwanted flying objects" happen to you. It really works a lot better than you might think. Typing is actually better than voice, though voice is available now too.
Prokofy Neva
jayshao
· 2 years ago
2 thoughts:
1. Maybe we should ban laptops so something that requires more than 30 seconds of attention can happen ;) 2. I've often felt the opposite -- I wish there was just enough structure to seed the interesting discussions, and have always felt constrained by the need to hurry off to another talk or session. The hallway conversations and dinner chats have always felt like the best part from my point of view.
All Comments
This presupposes that the speakers have something interesting to say, something you want to hear. At a scientific conference, for example, they should have results -- new knowledge that you want. That, incidentally, is why program committees work so hard to screen papers!
This even works, occasionally, in computer science conferences. At OOPSLA this year, you could spend the entire conference in keynotes and invited talks, and even if you were an insider and had heard all these people before, you'd get a ton of new information. Stuff you need.
A lower standard is that most of the talks be interesting, and some of them have impact on your work. ACM Hypertext is like that: a decent session is bound to suggest a new feature for Tinderbox or a new way to approach hypertext reading.
Lots of tech conferences don't meet this standard. I don't know why; I think your crusade to fix the problem is really important to the field. But keep in mind that, sometimes, the best way to spend an hour is to listen to what someone with a good idea or a new discovery has to tell you all.
I still want to see/do your HyperCamp (http://tinyurl.com/kfnry), but I haven't figured out the right context or audience to do it with yet. Keep up the critical thinking!
At first the joy of finding out that everyone has something to say is overwhelming, that was the first two BCs for me. But after that, it wasn't that big a thrill, then it mattered more what they had to say.
I'm trying something new at LeWeb3, with Loic's blessings, a way to bring the world into the event, I think there's a pretty good chance it'll work and provide people with a fresh and interesting experience. I hope to learn a lot from it. (And of course report the results here.)
I like the idea thread on the LeWeb3. If I am on track with your teaser, I think this is awesome. I have struggled several times to bring the Internet (world) community into the event and get the event to extend seamlessly out into the Internet (world) community.
It is a tough barrier to break, and I think the barrier is more mental (or maybe effective rendering) than anything. I think it is a UI (big concept, not software-only connotation) problem.
The expectation that a conference provides you with something to do seems to be one of the reasons why you and others have been so supportive of the "unconference" approach. The conference is yours. Its up to you to make it interesting. Its up to you to do something if you want to do something. The reason i would go to a conference or unconference would be to to learn something new and meet people.
Maybe you're just in a different place in your career than most. You've not trying to land a new gig or advance your career (I'm assuming).You've met most of these people before. And most speakers aren't telling you anything new. Maybe you're just conferenced out. Maybe there's really no good reason for you to go to any of these conferences.
The last thing i want a conference to do is to give me stuff to do.
You're right about me being in a different place. I'm really not trying to get anywhere. I'm pretty satisfied with where I am. Not a bad feeling, btw. Not much yearning for something better. I've more or less got what I wanted, and want.
But then they're workshops, not conferences.
These days I have a different experience because (I guess) I do have something some people want -- the ability to promote their ideas. But I've learned that this isn't friendship, and I nowadays I actually prefer to be anonymous at the conferences I go to, so I can learn something. The ones I get something out of are the ones that are so far out of my field that just watching how people interact differently gets me some value. For example, I went to two conferences in Boston this year like that: The NPR conference and Wikimania. Not very many people from tech at either of these, therefore it was a different experience. However most people had heard of me.
I'm going to LeWeb3 which will have *all* the usual suspects. I do this because I enjoy Loic's company, and I think it will be interesting to see people I know in Europe and it's been a long time since I've been to Paris, so... It should be a reasonably fun trip. :-)
Most conferences suffer from two maladies. 1) they don't go deep enough: they tell you what you could get in 10 minutes at Borders reading book covers and 2) There's no real dialog: the three people who get in on the 2 minute Q&A after a 28 minute PPT death march ask banal questions... How about an IM stream rolling down a screen adjacent to the preso so the audience could add depth, color, rebuttal or context to the speakers words.
Agree with this and your previous posts on the state of conferences. Your suggestion to involve others outside the venue is brilliant. My sense is too much conference bandwidth is being dedicated to self-serving and often boring infomercials.
On the other hand, they are giving us stuff to do: Several of the sessions are focused on writing exercises, there are nice dinners every night, and one of the days is spent at the Culinary Institute of America. So, no complaints; I just always find it funny.
The other "conference" I try to go to every year is International Puzzle Party. There's lots of stuff to do there, of course, in the form of playing with new puzzles, but the organizers always make an effort to get us to some events that give a sense of the color of the city we're in.
As a conference attendee, the only two conferences that I've attended/will attend this year are one for our vertical market, and Oracle OpenWorld next week. Somehow I don't think you were thinking of OpenWorld when you were musing about conferences - if anything, Oracle OpenWorld has too much to do.
Now that I think about it, the users that run our conference like to have several concurrent sessions at once. I haven't been so hot on the idea (you end up with sessions with just a few people there), but perhaps they have a point.
Yes I also did some childish taunting of our "host" http://seesmic.com/Standalone.swf?video=pLt5Qo9IE4 but the best bits were talking to German people (who generously spoke as much English as they could) - and some Americans (though they need to brush up their English more) about what we had in common regardless of nationality and location. I'd strongly encourage you to speak to plenty of mainland Europeans when you're at LeWeb.
And since what you get out of anything depends on what you're willing and able to put in, I'd suggest that the best way to make sure "that everyone has something to do at all times" is to make sure there are plenty of opportunities to contribute - which I see you've already started on for LeWeb - Thanks!
Unconferences?
Prokofy Neva
1. Maybe we should ban laptops so something that requires more than 30 seconds of attention can happen ;)
2. I've often felt the opposite -- I wish there was just enough structure to seed the interesting discussions, and have always felt constrained by the need to hurry off to another talk or session. The hallway conversations and dinner chats have always felt like the best part from my point of view.