Stunning review of the Moyers-Wright interview. I couldn't have said it better Dave!
charles cooper
· 1 year ago
i think dave's spot on here. from the get-go of this silly soap opera, i watched with bemusement how everyone in the world seemed to jump ugly on wright w/o knowing squat about black liberation theology - let alone knowing anything the man or the context of his remarks. i don't necessarily agree with everything he said in the much-quoted speech which made the rounds last month but how many people bothered to watch the longer video of the same speech (which was available on youtube?) of course not.. naturally, the brigade of talking head knuckleheads led by the likes of chris matthews and sean hannity went out of their way to ignore context. but let's not chalk this solely up to idiots in the media. the american people regularly allow themselves to get bamboozled when it comes to matters of race. there's more than 200 years of sheer stupidity to page through. eventually, people come to their senses. all the manipulators need to do is push a few buttons and they trigger the reactions they want. maybe one day we'll get smart about this stuff. maybe
Joe G.
· 1 year ago
I haven't watched this yet, but I have a TiVo season pass to Bill Moyers Journal. I think he's a really great example of how political journalism could be. He doesn't hide his general position, but he's always measured and seems incredibly honest intellectually.
I've never noticed the commentariat reacting to anything on his show, though. It would be a great thing if they did.
Bruce
· 1 year ago
Wright's interview opened a door that gets easily closed by the media. Did we know him before the interview; after? I think for many of us who do not have the history of being Black in America, just have no idea- my self included. But, after taking a moment, to listen to Rev. Wright, it was certainly humbling. What I took away mostly was, that we have to begin to talk about our own injustices; accept and forgive ourselves and hopefully see with different eyes when we allow the truth to be told without fear. It's ok to admit mistakes- we can't be whole and accepting of others if we do not.
news
· 1 year ago
Had to watch it online, but I thought it was a good interview but is likely to be ineffectual. I do think it has the long-term potential to blunt the impact of the sound bites; so at best by November the Wright issue is less of a problem.
Wright shows he's a reasonable man trying to do good things for his community. I don't think most people will really understand that his preaching style is more Old Testament than New. In the Old Testament, good people were getting damned all the time or at least warned about being damned.
Bottom line: as reasonable as Wright is in person and in thought this is never going to erase the impact of the clips. The bell can't be un-rung. The lie makes page 1, the retraction gets buried.
p.s. you make an excellent point on passover and American slavery. Folks shouldn't get over it, they should celebrate their triumph over it. Fact is, many Americans alive in the US today today are only 3, even 2 generations from slavery (as slaves or owners) and most are 1 (or 0) generations from Jim Crow.
David Phillips
· 1 year ago
What stands out for me is the quote
"Trinity has long had strong ties with the African roots of its faith. Parishoners are asked to respect what they call "the black value system:" to rededicate themselves to God, the black family and the black community. Reinforcing the motto that they are quote "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian."
Across the globe, and I speak from a UK perspective, there are people who talk of values and value systems.
What are these values? What are values? Can we capture them or are they mores of culture or sprites of the moment?
Are they at a moment in time, in an environment with forms of interactive availability for beliefs and knowledge to come forward into a community.
If my thesis is right, and I believe it to be so, we can begin to understand the dynamic of rich and poor, black and white, Jew and gentile not as absolutes but as the basis for humanity where judgement is less important than understanding and where we do not leave behind people and their culture, their music, their legends, their religion and their hopes because we can't. They form values that endure deep in the human memory.
As ubiquitous interactive communication takes hold because of the growing capability of the internet we had better soon begin to understand values and value systems in order to be able to put the American Presidential race into perspective.
For those of us watching from 3000 miles away many also hope that this is an ambition inside the USA too.
HalSF
· 1 year ago
Many thanks for the mp3 link. A fascinating clear signal after all the static/noise. Still unresolved are the AIDS conspiranoia and the whiff of cruelty/justification toward 9/11 victims, but surely he'll have to address those Monday at the NPC.
It basically says that Obama's success is due to his mediocrity. I thought it was relatively insightful.
gnarlytrombone
· 1 year ago
The whole episode sickens me. The national media dump on the man for two months, reducing a 36-year career to one 30-second soundbite, twisting his sermons into precisely the opposite of what he said. And then the parasitic pundits have the gall to call the man a publicity hound. #%^@$%^@^
Zik
· 1 year ago
Let me just say that it's people like you that fuel my hope that America has enough good, just and fair thinking people inside its borders. You sir represent the best of humanity. Hannity represents the worst.
“The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”
justcorbly
· 1 year ago
I missed the interview, but thanks for this great post.
One of the things that have been illuminated by the Wright flap is how much white America is silent on the issue of race and is removed from the issue of race, and, therefore, blandly assumes that all is well, race wise. I remember being asked by a colleague -- a white boomer much like me -- what I considered the biggest problem facing the country. I said race. Her response, to paraphrase: "Still? We haven't had any riots or stuff for a long time."
Being able to live such an insular and insulated life must be the most damning characteristic of racism in America. It's the reason white people say and do racist things without having a clue that they're being offensive. It's the reason we say things like "a black church" to describe Wright's congregation but don't use "a white church" to describe the staid Protestant facility down the street. It's an assumption that white culture and white history and white expectations form the bedrock of American culture and that all others are inferior phenomena that survive only at the forbearance of white America.
happyfeet
· 1 year ago
As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.
24AheadDotCom
· 1 year ago
I didn't watch the interview, but the idea that the press is too rough is ludicrous. The MSM continally fails to ask difficult questions that would reveal lies and misleading statements from the candidates. Instead of opposing that practice, Winer wants them to be even worse. As for Wright, he's not running for office, but he's a public figure. And, instead of hiding from the limelight, he's courting it.
On the larger issue, Winer might want to consider the impact when someone confronts Obama on his lies about policy matters and then uploads his response to Youtube: http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/007603.html
sreiser
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the great post, I would've missed this with it. I feel here in NY the news has been taken over by the acquittal of the officers in the Sean Bell shooting (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?st...). I can't seem to walk past a TV, turn on a radio or open a news paper without bumping into the case (Lawyers, City Officials, Sharpton, etc). So a lot of other items are getting lost.
Michael Markman (Mickeleh)
· 1 year ago
I doubt that you'd catch Hannity's, Russert's, Mitchell's pastors saying anything upsetting. As you note, "Wright says the religion of the people on the deck of a slave ship must be different from the religion from the people under the deck." While the churches of the well-off are no longer in the business of justifying slavery, they are only rarely straying into areas that might upset the parishoners.
justcorbly
· 1 year ago
>>" ...the idea that the press is too rough is ludicrous..."
It isn't that the press is "too rough" so much as it is that the press is increasingly irrelevant.
Asking "hardball" questions about inconsequential matters with the purpose of generating a soundbite to lead the news cycle for a day or so is not responsible journalism. However, it is what we see on the cable shows that call themselves "news" but are really just another kind of profit-grabbing entertainment.
The litmus test of a network's commitment to legitimate journalism is its willingness to keep a show on the air even if it's losing money. Once upon a time, the broadcast networks treated news with respect and did not expect it to return a profit. Those days are long gone.
Jim Posner
· 1 year ago
It will be interesting to see if the electorate makes the investment in understanding Wright in the long form rather than voting viscerally to how he has been caricatured in the short form.
I am also hoping the JFK electorate carries the day rather then the GWB electorate. I think Obama has lots of ground work yet to do to make that happen, through voter registration and education.
Helping America understand Wright the Prophet rather than Wright Farrakhan-lite will take some heavy lifting on the part of his campaign and his supporters. I appreciate your efforts in jump starting this discussion and hope others join in from the deck and the galley. The quiet that we hear may be America listening to itself again.
tompoe
· 1 year ago
When corporate media gets the wright matter so wrong, it seems appropriate to complain. Analysis of the context, the content, the "message" attribution, the topic, the purpose, intent, meaning of the matter would lead reasonable persons to conclude the corporate media colluded to mislead, misinform, and lie to the public. Moyers superbly demonstrated, even humiliated the corporate media with his hour-long treatment of the matter. Any complaint need simply call for review of all corporate media coverage, then watch the Moyer interview, then yank all broadcast network licenses, except PBS, which would then provide information for the public until new licensees appear.
Peter Hill
· 1 year ago
I watched it this morning. It was excellent. When one hears more of the context of the snippets we have been blasted with, one can understand why he said those things.
I looked up the passage on amazon's search inside the book, and it is legit.
Joe Black
· 1 year ago
Dear Mr Winer, As did the whole Obama biased MSM, you too have missed the point completely. First of all please understand how moderate non-religious americans like myself are viewing this topic and why this offends us. Mr. Wright, in all fairness and constitutional legality, has the right to express his opinions. Louis Farah Khan has the same set of rights. They are free to say whatever they want. However when one is in an influential position, one should exercise caution and be extremely "careful" with the words they choose to use. There are always subtle methods to deliver a message. Agreed the "strangeness" of the AA church is sometimes beyond some of us. However having agreed that their ways are strange, the leaders need to put in work to make it "mainstream". Either way, again I assert, THAT is again a "right" that they have at their disposal and nobody is blaming them, in this case hm (Mr. Wright), for not making that choice. In fact THIS is NOT about Wright. He is not running for the presidency of USA. If he did, he would hardly get any votes. But I digress. The case and point here are about the "judgement" exercised by Obama. Obama chose to condemn the "comments" but not disassociate himself from this man. The main reason was fear of "political" fallout. THAT is the issue here. It goes to show that Barack is after all a garden variety politician. For he did not have the guts to do the "right" thing with the FEAR of losing the African American vote. That is the hopelessness of his judgement. That is the audacity in his hypocrisy. That is exactly old-school washington politics. That is the antithesis of his "hope, change and honesty" platform. That is what is upsetting. Not what Wright said. Have a good day.
DrunkenMonk
· 1 year ago
Racism is racism whichever quarter it emanates from. Be it the majority or minority flanks. The idea of seeking a "conext" within racism is ridiculous. There is none. Contexts are mere excuses. One should never look for context to justify racism. Otherwise there would be no logical "beginning" and ergo no "ending" to stamp it out. The real perpetrators, in most cases, have long passed through the travails of time, leaving behind them a legacy of hatred for the generations that follow to bicker about. Each generation should account for its actions and its actions alone. They should not burden themselves with the actions of their predecessors and traipse around their lives with a guilt-ridden conscience tolerating all ill-thought-outright-racist comments from anyone who may still be living in the shadow of the actions of their predecessors. If the people/person crying out afoul do/does not have the common sense to realize that the world around them is changing and their current actions are going to set their cause back by another 40 years then it is their own burden of their own making to carry around. The world is tired of such people. As Newton said you need to study the PRESENT in the light of past for a better future - Not study the past in the present to create a disharmonious future.
Michael Markman (Mickeleh)
· 1 year ago
Specifically, what is it in Rev. Wright's sermons that you categorize as racism? It would help advance the conversation to find some common ground of understanding.
DrunkenMonk
· 1 year ago
Well we have all seen some of the sermons. He makes remarks such as "controlled by rich white people", "Hillary ain't been called the 'N" word". And there are several such other references in a good number of his sermons which are divisive and race biased.. We get the point that he is trying to highlight how "difficult" it is to be an AA in this country. We get it. Believe me it is tough to be of "colour" in this country - you are a minority. But let me tell you this, it is TOUGHER to be a MINORITY in other countries. At least in the US people have certain rights. But that does not justify directing your anger along the race lines. Instead focus on uplifting your own. If you cannot speak good of the other side then don't speak. At least you won't be fanning hatred and racism. Let me give you an example. Friends of mine, a couple, were robbed by an African American man at gun point in washington. Does that justify for them to go out to their church and declare that all AA men are thieves? Definitely not. Such broad generalizations do not help anyone. History has shown us that from time to time several races dominate others. Look at what imperial Japan did to parts of asia. Look what the British did to southeast asia. Look at what the British/Americans did to native Indians. The list is long and painful. But that does not justify a person holding a grudge against all Japanese or British or Germans and etc. For the majority of the people in the present are not committing those crimes. So IFF one really wants to put an end to racism, then one needs to talk about peace and how to make the future better. Not dwell in the past and keep licking old wounds. The generations to come will see the sermons of Wright and form a false opinion on all AA and perhaps harbour some mistrust and ill-feelings. It has to STOP with no "if(s)" and "but(s)". Otherwise there would be no beginning or end to this hatred and the "he said this" and "she said this" would continue. So Wright should NOT broaching politics in the pulpit. If he wants to preach moral values - there are plenty of other ways to do it. If you are in a position of influence you HAVE to be careful with the words you choose. For words are far more powerful than weapons. They have an infinte life time. Weapons come and go - they will take your body but they cannot move your soul. Words can.
Michael Markman (Mickeleh)
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the bill of particulars. Here are some points where you and I-- and Rev. Wright agree:
First, AA churches should focus on uplifting their own community. Here's a list of ministries in the Trinity United Church of Christ. I think it's an amazing, positive program. If you watch the Bill Moyers program you'll see examples of these ministries in action.
Second, I think we also agree that we need to talk about making the future better. You offer a list of injustices of one people over another that might well have come directly from one of Rev. Wright's sermons.
But I'm not sure we agree on how to move forward. I don't believe you can just sweep it all under the rug or pave it over. It would be convenient to forget. But we're left with a current residue of suffering and inequality that is our heritage from past injustice.
People need to understand how they got where they are.
Your model of someone who is robbed by an AA and then generalizes about the whole race is not at all parallel to what Wright is preaching. I've seen nothing that he says that puts down the white race per se. He does call out a controlling power structure that is white. Do you think there's no such thing? There's enormous concentration of wealth, influence, and power into the hands of very few. Most of that few is white.
But look, most of us white saps can't get into that club. And Rev. Wright knows that.
He also knows that club is exploiting people at home and abroad and enriching themselves. Some people are very well off. Most of us are finding it harder to keep up. You may call it politics. I think Rev. Wright would call it working for social justice.
I want to close with two questions: Have you actually watched the Bill Moyers program? Have you actually listened to one complete sermon from Rev. Wright?
I don't believe anyone is qualified to talk about Rev. Wright without paying that entrance fee.
DrunkenMonk
· 1 year ago
I have watched the program and listed to the audio. So lets get that out of the way. Looks like you have missed the point I was trying to make. So let me try again.
Referring to your list of the rebuttals - re:item "2" - Yes, the list I have given could very well have come from Wright's sermons. But LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE. His method was to use divisive language. And THAT is what I have a problem with. Not the essence of his sermons - the choice of words is POOR at best and outright divisive.
And to address the point you make:
" There's enormous concentration of wealth, influence, and power into the hands of very few. Most of that few is white.
But look, most of us white saps can't get into that club. And Rev. Wright knows that."
And THAT IS PRECISELY the point I am trying to make. There are SEVERAL WHITES who are NOT privileged. So WHY make it a statement about "controlled by rich WHITE people". Why not make a statement about "RICH" people. Why make it about RACE? In todays world economics trumps race. Look around the world.
Listen I take offense to anyone pretending to be a "moral" authority on anything. So please refrain from "questioning" the credibility of the other side. And instead focus on the debate. And I dislike the ideas of "entrance fees". That is precisely what we should be fighting against. You are preaching something entirely different than what you want to practice. The day you do away with "entrance fees" to "old boys networks" that is the day we will have a free world. Up until then people will continue to do things because it is fashionable and not because it is the right thing to "do". Your statement about "entrance fees" is one such example.
Herb
· 1 year ago
I might be out of place here, but I'll ask anyway: are DrunkenMonk and Joe Black the same poster?
DrunkenMonk
· 1 year ago
You are right. I had sent an e-mail initially with my comment on the earlier wright post and was redirected to post it as a comment. So you see two handles.
hardaway
· 1 year ago
Yes, Dave. I'm glad you speak, so I don't have to. I watched it and came to love Rev. Wright. Clearly he taught Obama to hope, as he taught his congregation. I just don't think any of the media are smart enough to understand the complexities of the racial issue in America and where we have come since Wright began. Quite frankly, I agree with him almost completely, and it pains me that there's so much bullshit in the political discourse. Everybody full of hypocrisy. Hundreds of years of slavery, but you are not allowed to be angry?
Golab
· 1 year ago
I watched the interview and was very impressed with the power in the truth as seen from his eyes. I consider very carefully how our world has evolved differently depending on the place and privilege we are born into.
Shanty Minister
· 1 year ago
I'm from Chicago, presently live in Chicago. The "rights' " attacks on Obama via Wright is no different than the GOP attacks that utilised Willie Horton imagery. It's race baiting and lies of the worst order.
This is a great clip.. See how flustered the racist FOX reporter gets when the Priest rejects the racist, faulty Wright "analysis" by Fix News.
BTW, the media has largely ignored that fact that Billary's former (white) pastor ALSO spoke up and defended Pastor Wright's lifetime of work and his ministries. Google it.
Also, I encourage ALL of you--regardless of background & beliefs, to view the ENTIRE Wright sermon because it IS CLEAR the 30 seconds of COMMENTS were taken OUT OF CONTEXT. Many places online have posted Wright's FULL sermons (including United Trinity Church of Christ in Chicago).
Also, I would remind people that all GOP Presidential candidates since Regan (including McCain) have supported and stood with Bob Jones University-- a "religious" school that has made it "illegal" for its students to engage in interracial dating. FIX News has not condemned that policy nor called for the GOP politicians to denounce that policy.
And this is but one example of why many African Americans see non-blacks who don't speak out about this kind of hypocrisy as enablers and facilitators of hate, racism and bias.
Dave, thanks for speaking out! ShantyMinister (a Berkeley Grad in Chicago) Architect by Day, Troublemaker by Night
Cathryn Hrudicka
· 1 year ago
I was also impressed and surprised by Rev. Wright's demeanor and thoughtful responses on the Bill Moyers interview, which seemed to clash with the soundbites and portrayals of his character in the mainstream U.S. media. I wish everyone would watch Bill Moyers all the time, as well as Now (which usually follows Bill Moyers on PBS), and Frontline. Unfortunately, this isn't going to get the attention of most of the mainstream media because it is nuanced and the context is more complex than the time they would allot to it. It is too bad that politically, Obama simply had to denounce Wright, rather than present us with the full complexity of his character and beliefs.
This is still very much a nation in denial of its past and present transgressions. Many people seem to prefer blind religious belief or blind patriotism as an escape from truly examining the realities in our world and taking responsibility for their own part in it. "Yes we can" implies taking responsibility to make the world a better place. It is not just about self-empowerment, but responsibility. Thanks for posting about Moyers' thoughtful, gutsy and intelligent interview of Wright.
bbebop
· 1 year ago
First of all, great post. I continue to be pleased with your seriousness about and attention to this stuff.
The quiet is based on timing (weekend) and the utter lack of controversy. Wright talked about how his incendiary soundbites were taken out of context for an explicitly political purpose. That purpose being the destruction (by innuendo and guilt-by-association) of a certain political candidate. The spread of the Wright-is-a-racist meme was supported by intellectual laziness on the part of the media and the rest of us. Our society and this election craves controversy, so the energy will no doubt come after the Sunday morning talk shows have their say; after Fox News tries to Stephanopolous (a new verb...) Barack Obama into saying something controversial about Wright. I'm sure by the time Chris Matthews show on Monday, the MSM will be flogging Wright and Obama (and the rest of us) once again. All so they can sell soap to people who neither need nor want it. Color me cynical about all that...
BTW, Wright was respectful and full of nuance. When you actually listen to what he said in the past and what he says right now. Kind of defeats the simplicity of the "we are all racists" meme...
It is evident that you have to know the man, his theological underpinnings to understand his :chicken to roost" sermon. It is very likely that his congregation fully understands that. But Obama failed or at least decided to fail for tactical reasons in explaining this to us.
news
· 1 year ago
I agree this enriches all our lives greatly
greggraham
· 1 year ago
Dave, I'm glad you defended Rev. Wright and I appreciate your critique of sound-bite journalism. I've been interested in religion for over 25 years now, and I'm repeatably frustrated with how often journalists take a juicy quote from a religious leader out of context that completely distorts the intended message. This is very easy to document these days when it comes to the Catholic Church because the press even does this with official public statements, the full text of which is available on the web (e.g. vatican.va and zenit.org). You can compare the New York Times headline with the actual document and easily see how they miss the point. Now people's interest in Obama is causing them to look into Rev. Wright's real message, and that's exposing how misleading the popular press has been.
All Comments
I've never noticed the commentariat reacting to anything on his show, though. It would be a great thing if they did.
Wright shows he's a reasonable man trying to do good things for his community. I don't think most people will really understand that his preaching style is more Old Testament than New. In the Old Testament, good people were getting damned all the time or at least warned about being damned.
Bottom line: as reasonable as Wright is in person and in thought this is never going to erase the impact of the clips. The bell can't be un-rung. The lie makes page 1, the retraction gets buried.
p.s. you make an excellent point on passover and American slavery. Folks shouldn't get over it, they should celebrate their triumph over it. Fact is, many Americans alive in the US today today are only 3, even 2 generations from slavery (as slaves or owners) and most are 1 (or 0) generations from Jim Crow.
"Trinity has long had strong ties with the African roots of its faith. Parishoners are asked to respect what they call "the black value system:" to rededicate themselves to God, the black family and the black community. Reinforcing the motto that they are quote "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian."
Across the globe, and I speak from a UK perspective, there are people who talk of values and value systems.
What are these values? What are values? Can we capture them or are they mores of culture or sprites of the moment?
Are they at a moment in time, in an environment with forms of interactive availability for beliefs and knowledge to come forward into a community.
If my thesis is right, and I believe it to be so, we can begin to understand the dynamic of rich and poor, black and white, Jew and gentile not as absolutes but as the basis for humanity where judgement is less important than understanding and where we do not leave behind people and their culture, their music, their legends, their religion and their hopes because we can't. They form values that endure deep in the human memory.
As ubiquitous interactive communication takes hold because of the growing capability of the internet we had better soon begin to understand values and value systems in order to be able to put the American Presidential race into perspective.
For those of us watching from 3000 miles away many also hope that this is an ambition inside the USA too.
http://falkenblog.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-o...
It basically says that Obama's success is due to his mediocrity. I thought it was relatively insightful.
http://tinyurl.com/5bek9l
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=617eK2XIaLk Skip ahead to :39 in the clip
“The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”
One of the things that have been illuminated by the Wright flap is how much white America is silent on the issue of race and is removed from the issue of race, and, therefore, blandly assumes that all is well, race wise. I remember being asked by a colleague -- a white boomer much like me -- what I considered the biggest problem facing the country. I said race. Her response, to paraphrase: "Still? We haven't had any riots or stuff for a long time."
Being able to live such an insular and insulated life must be the most damning characteristic of racism in America. It's the reason white people say and do racist things without having a clue that they're being offensive. It's the reason we say things like "a black church" to describe Wright's congregation but don't use "a white church" to describe the staid Protestant facility down the street. It's an assumption that white culture and white history and white expectations form the bedrock of American culture and that all others are inferior phenomena that survive only at the forbearance of white America.
On the larger issue, Winer might want to consider the impact when someone confronts Obama on his lies about policy matters and then uploads his response to Youtube:
http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/007603.html
It isn't that the press is "too rough" so much as it is that the press is increasingly irrelevant.
Asking "hardball" questions about inconsequential matters with the purpose of generating a soundbite to lead the news cycle for a day or so is not responsible journalism. However, it is what we see on the cable shows that call themselves "news" but are really just another kind of profit-grabbing entertainment.
The litmus test of a network's commitment to legitimate journalism is its willingness to keep a show on the air even if it's losing money. Once upon a time, the broadcast networks treated news with respect and did not expect it to return a profit. Those days are long gone.
I am also hoping the JFK electorate carries the day rather then the GWB electorate. I think Obama has lots of ground work yet to do to make that happen, through voter registration and education.
Helping America understand Wright the Prophet rather than Wright Farrakhan-lite will take some heavy lifting on the part of his campaign and his supporters. I appreciate your efforts in jump starting this discussion and hope others join in from the deck and the galley. The quiet that we hear may be America listening to itself again.
Did you see this:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/25/165935/...
I looked up the passage on amazon's search inside the book, and it is legit.
As did the whole Obama biased MSM, you too have missed the point completely. First of all please understand how moderate non-religious americans like myself are viewing this topic and why this offends us. Mr. Wright, in all fairness and constitutional legality, has the right to express his opinions. Louis Farah Khan has the same set of rights. They are free to say whatever they want. However when one is in an influential position, one should exercise caution and be extremely "careful" with the words they choose to use. There are always subtle methods to deliver a message. Agreed the "strangeness" of the AA church is sometimes beyond some of us. However having agreed that their ways are strange, the leaders need to put in work to make it "mainstream". Either way, again I assert, THAT is again a "right" that they have at their disposal and nobody is blaming them, in this case hm (Mr. Wright), for not making that choice. In fact THIS is NOT about Wright.
He is not running for the presidency of USA. If he did, he would hardly get any votes. But I digress. The case and point here are about the "judgement" exercised by Obama. Obama chose to condemn the "comments" but not disassociate himself from this man. The main reason was fear of "political" fallout. THAT is the issue here. It goes to show that Barack is after all a garden variety politician. For he did not have the guts to do the "right" thing with the FEAR of losing the African American vote. That is the hopelessness of his judgement. That is the audacity in his hypocrisy. That is exactly old-school washington politics. That is the antithesis of his "hope, change and honesty" platform. That is what is upsetting. Not what Wright said.
Have a good day.
First, AA churches should focus on uplifting their own community. Here's a list of ministries in the Trinity United Church of Christ. I think it's an amazing, positive program. If you watch the Bill Moyers program you'll see examples of these ministries in action.
Second, I think we also agree that we need to talk about making the future better. You offer a list of injustices of one people over another that might well have come directly from one of Rev. Wright's sermons.
But I'm not sure we agree on how to move forward. I don't believe you can just sweep it all under the rug or pave it over. It would be convenient to forget. But we're left with a current residue of suffering and inequality that is our heritage from past injustice.
People need to understand how they got where they are.
Your model of someone who is robbed by an AA and then generalizes about the whole race is not at all parallel to what Wright is preaching. I've seen nothing that he says that puts down the white race per se. He does call out a controlling power structure that is white. Do you think there's no such thing? There's enormous concentration of wealth, influence, and power into the hands of very few. Most of that few is white.
But look, most of us white saps can't get into that club. And Rev. Wright knows that.
He also knows that club is exploiting people at home and abroad and enriching themselves. Some people are very well off. Most of us are finding it harder to keep up. You may call it politics. I think Rev. Wright would call it working for social justice.
I want to close with two questions: Have you actually watched the Bill Moyers program? Have you actually listened to one complete sermon from Rev. Wright?
I don't believe anyone is qualified to talk about Rev. Wright without paying that entrance fee.
Referring to your list of the rebuttals - re:item "2" - Yes, the list I have given could very well have come from Wright's sermons. But LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE. His method was to use divisive language. And THAT is what I have a problem with. Not the essence of his sermons - the choice of words is POOR at best and outright divisive.
And to address the point you make:
" There's enormous concentration of wealth, influence, and power into the hands of very few. Most of that few is white.
But look, most of us white saps can't get into that club. And Rev. Wright knows that."
And THAT IS PRECISELY the point I am trying to make. There are SEVERAL WHITES who are NOT privileged. So WHY make it a statement about "controlled by rich WHITE people". Why not make a statement about "RICH" people. Why make it about RACE? In todays world economics trumps race. Look around the world.
Listen I take offense to anyone pretending to be a "moral" authority on anything. So please refrain from "questioning" the credibility of the other side. And instead focus on the debate. And I dislike the ideas of "entrance fees". That is precisely what we should be fighting against. You are preaching something entirely different than what you want to practice. The day you do away with "entrance fees" to "old boys networks" that is the day we will have a free world. Up until then people will continue to do things because it is fashionable and not because it is the right thing to "do". Your statement about "entrance fees" is one such example.
View this video clip Rev. Wright being defended by a prominent white Catholic Priest, Father Michael Pfelger of St. Sabina (Chicago). <http://blogs.bet.com/news/newsyoushouldknow/?p=...>
This is a great clip.. See how flustered the racist FOX reporter gets when the Priest rejects the racist, faulty Wright "analysis" by Fix News.
BTW, the media has largely ignored that fact that Billary's former (white) pastor ALSO spoke up and defended Pastor Wright's lifetime of work and his ministries. Google it.
Also, I encourage ALL of you--regardless of background & beliefs, to view the ENTIRE Wright sermon because it IS CLEAR the 30 seconds of COMMENTS were taken OUT OF CONTEXT. Many places online have posted Wright's FULL sermons (including United Trinity Church of Christ in Chicago).
Also, I would remind people that all GOP Presidential candidates since Regan (including McCain) have supported and stood with Bob Jones University-- a "religious" school that has made it "illegal" for its students to engage in interracial dating. FIX News has not condemned that policy nor called for the GOP politicians to denounce that policy.
And this is but one example of why many African Americans see non-blacks who don't speak out about this kind of hypocrisy as enablers and facilitators of hate, racism and bias.
Dave, thanks for speaking out!
ShantyMinister (a Berkeley Grad in Chicago)
Architect by Day, Troublemaker by Night
This is still very much a nation in denial of its past and present transgressions. Many people seem to prefer blind religious belief or blind patriotism as an escape from truly examining the realities in our world and taking responsibility for their own part in it. "Yes we can" implies taking responsibility to make the world a better place. It is not just about self-empowerment, but responsibility. Thanks for posting about Moyers' thoughtful, gutsy and intelligent interview of Wright.
The quiet is based on timing (weekend) and the utter lack of controversy. Wright talked about how his incendiary soundbites were taken out of context for an explicitly political purpose. That purpose being the destruction (by innuendo and guilt-by-association) of a certain political candidate. The spread of the Wright-is-a-racist meme was supported by intellectual laziness on the part of the media and the rest of us. Our society and this election craves controversy, so the energy will no doubt come after the Sunday morning talk shows have their say; after Fox News tries to Stephanopolous (a new verb...) Barack Obama into saying something controversial about Wright. I'm sure by the time Chris Matthews show on Monday, the MSM will be flogging Wright and Obama (and the rest of us) once again. All so they can sell soap to people who neither need nor want it. Color me cynical about all that...
BTW, Wright was respectful and full of nuance. When you actually listen to what he said in the past and what he says right now. Kind of defeats the simplicity of the "we are all racists" meme...
It is evident that you have to know the man, his theological underpinnings to understand his :chicken to roost" sermon. It is very likely that his congregation fully understands that. But Obama failed or at least decided to fail for tactical reasons in explaining this to us.